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I need spiritual people who really believe the Bible to help me answer this question. I'm afraid that it won't make a lot of sense to everyone else, and it barely makes sense to me, really.
Anyway, I think I was recently "saved" again, but I'm still really confused. I'm already extremely OCD about religious matters, and I'm worried that I damned myself with some kind of confusing promise to follow the rules the people at the church I attend preach. They are pretty strict about everything, no listening to non-Christian music (they don't even allow Classical music), no dancing (except non-choreographed "praise" dancing), no "worldly" activities (I'm afraid to ask, but I know going to the theatre, listening to concerts, attending festivals--like Mardi Gras--and other similar activities are off of the list, no gambling (I think raffles are included in this definition, too), no makeup (I can see justification for this, but some people, like me, need it,), etc. When I first started attending this church, I thought a lot of their rules were silly, perhaps overly cautious misinterpretations of scriptures, but now, especially with the idea that I told God I would follow this (even though I was honestly trying to say that I wouldn't follow it and just said it the wrong way) I've actually been feeling guilty about every day activities that might violate some of these rules. I'm at my wit's end. I wish I could be free of all of this confusion. I work as a teacher, and I have to show videos sometimes, and videos contain music, usually non-Christian music, for instance. I hate all of this confusion. I feel like I've somehow ruined my life.
I've been told to seek God about it, but I'm kind of afraid of what I'm going to learn. I do remember the man who vowed to God that he would sacrifice the first thing that came up to him if he won the war, and it was his own daughter...We truly do need to be careful with our words, but I can't imagine actually having to live my life like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin Atoms
The Galatian church was rife with similar laws. Throughout the NT, there were many references to circumcision of the heart, as the church was becoming a battleground to discuss the need for male converts to engage in circumcision. The grace of G-d is liberating and the true circumcision is to be separated from sin with a holy life. If you are dead to sin, you are dead to religious conversion. This is not the absence of law, but the law of love. If you are freed by Christ, you are free indeed. Get out of that church and find one that celebrates G-d's love. Pigs and jackasses don't do any of what you were requested to promise, and it doesn't make them holy.
Get that OCD fixed too - there are meds for that. I don't believe in a 'medication society,' but you can lower the volume on that OCD with the right combo of pharmaceuticals, in most cases. Altogether, you don't have to limit your spirituality as much as you need to eliminate your religiosity. The spirit of Christ offers liberation from all sin, including denominations and sectarianism.
You will probably discover that if you relax on the rigors of dogmatism, the need to address OCD will diminish accordingly without the need for any drugs.
I need spiritual people who really believe the Bible to help me answer this question. I'm afraid that it won't make a lot of sense to everyone else, and it barely makes sense to me, really.
Anyway, I think I was recently "saved" again, but I'm still really confused. I'm already extremely OCD about religious matters, and I'm worried that I damned myself with some kind of confusing promise to follow the rules the people at the church I attend preach. They are pretty strict about everything, no listening to non-Christian music (they don't even allow Classical music), no dancing (except non-choreographed "praise" dancing), no "worldly" activities (I'm afraid to ask, but I know going to the theatre, listening to concerts, attending festivals--like Mardi Gras--and other similar activities are off of the list, no gambling (I think raffles are included in this definition, too), no makeup (I can see justification for this, but some people, like me, need it,), etc. When I first started attending this church, I thought a lot of their rules were silly, perhaps overly cautious misinterpretations of scriptures, but now, especially with the idea that I told God I would follow this (even though I was honestly trying to say that I wouldn't follow it and just said it the wrong way) I've actually been feeling guilty about every day activities that might violate some of these rules. I'm at my wit's end. I wish I could be free of all of this confusion. I work as a teacher, and I have to show videos sometimes, and videos contain music, usually non-Christian music, for instance. I hate all of this confusion. I feel like I've somehow ruined my life.
I've been told to seek God about it, but I'm kind of afraid of what I'm going to learn. I do remember the man who vowed to God that he would sacrifice the first thing that came up to him if he won the war, and it was his own daughter...We truly do need to be careful with our words, but I can't imagine actually having to live my life like this.
You're not saved. You're in an abuse/manipulation cycle. Leave this group immediately, and try to find a support group that will protect you if these people come after you. Then go to another church that doesn't emphasize being "saved". That you are asking for help means you very much know in your heart this isn't a working model.
A story, if you please. I was fed up with living with my parents, and wanted to travel. I was kinda in turmoil of a few sorts. I stopped off to live with my sister, and got hooked up with an apartment. After two months of no job and no income, I'm like "how can anybody live like this?" I hate the cultural idea that somehow an apartment equates independence. So anyway, my sister mentioned WWOOF, and I did some farming for stipend. First stop was a farm that seemed to have alot of very religious folk there, but after only two days of working there, I got a very bad feeling. People generally talking about how they felt unclean and wanting to be baptised. Priests talking about "removing the leaven from your life (it was near Passover)". One of the roommates who had drawn a wonderful (albeit pornographic) piece of art, being told that the elders didn't want him to use his talent. At the end of a particularly long segment of (cough, indoctrination) sermon, I noticed a kid opening the door to let people know breakfast was ready. I snuck out, and started packing. By the end of the day, I stopped at a campground, slept overnight, and found the first mainstream church I could see. Presbyterian, I think. I was raised Episcopal, but I didn't care. The sermon was about Jewish burnt offerings, and sacrifices for Passover. The priest suddenly stopped for a beat. She said, "We don't have to do that anymore." We don't have to do that anymore. Someone died for our sake. We don't have to follow the laws of those who seek to control us, people who tell us that X or Y is not the right way to do things. This isn't being saved. This is people telling us that their way is right, to keep us from leaving.
You need to go to spiritual detox. Cut off church for a few months, and ask yourself some questions.
Who am I?
What do I want from life?
Do I not as a human have the need to create (literature, music, artwork, etc)?
Do I not have the need to celebrate (dance, music, festivals, etc)?
Do I not have free will from God? Why was free will given if we are to throw it away to worry about crossing our legs during dancing?
How can I use my time on this Earth? How is this faith tradition helping/hindering that?
What would be my ideal religious community? What would not be my ideal?
A faith without some doubts is like a human body with no antobodies in it. People who blithely go through life too busy or indifferent to ask the hard questions about why they believe as they do will find themselves defenseless against either the experience of tragedy or the probing questions of a smart skeptic. A person's faith can collapse almost overnight if she failed over the years to listen patiently to her own doubts, which should only be discarded after long reflection.
I need spiritual people who really believe the Bible to help me answer this question. I'm afraid that it won't make a lot of sense to everyone else, and it barely makes sense to me, really.
Anyway, I think I was recently "saved" again, but I'm still really confused. I'm already extremely OCD about religious matters, and I'm worried that I damned myself with some kind of confusing promise to follow the rules the people at the church I attend preach. They are pretty strict about everything, no listening to non-Christian music (they don't even allow Classical music), no dancing (except non-choreographed "praise" dancing), no "worldly" activities (I'm afraid to ask, but I know going to the theatre, listening to concerts, attending festivals--like Mardi Gras--and other similar activities are off of the list, no gambling (I think raffles are included in this definition, too), no makeup (I can see justification for this, but some people, like me, need it,), etc. When I first started attending this church, I thought a lot of their rules were silly, perhaps overly cautious misinterpretations of scriptures, but now, especially with the idea that I told God I would follow this (even though I was honestly trying to say that I wouldn't follow it and just said it the wrong way) I've actually been feeling guilty about every day activities that might violate some of these rules. I'm at my wit's end. I wish I could be free of all of this confusion. I work as a teacher, and I have to show videos sometimes, and videos contain music, usually non-Christian music, for instance. I hate all of this confusion. I feel like I've somehow ruined my life.
I've been told to seek God about it, but I'm kind of afraid of what I'm going to learn. I do remember the man who vowed to God that he would sacrifice the first thing that came up to him if he won the war, and it was his own daughter...We truly do need to be careful with our words, but I can't imagine actually having to live my life like this.
Many things of this world, God dislikes--Jesus taught us to be no part of this world while yet living in it. And he said we would be hated for following him. It sounds like they are going overboard with some things. the bible mentions nothing about makeup--but going overboard isn't wise. In a lot of things that come out of Hollywood and music and video games, God dislikes--violence, the occult, immoral sex--Hollywood lives by these 3 things--a lot of the music and video games as well. Some music isn't bad, as some movies aren't, just be careful what you support. Afterall Jesus said--satan is the ruler of this world. Gods word teaches all govts will be mislead to stand in opposition to Jesus--as well they are corrupt-Rev 16, Rev 19:17-19,, 2Peter 2:19) so one would not cast a vote for corruption, nor kill for them either. The encyclopedias ( facts of history) concerning many traditions and holidays say pagan additives were added to them, including Easter and Christmas---pagan additives are straight off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) advises not to partake off the table of demons-- unfortunately satan transforms into an angel of light( 2Cor 11:12-15) and uses things like love, sharing, etc but adds the table of demons. Clearly on this earth 99% are mislead.
Many things of this world, God dislikes--Jesus taught us to be no part of this world while yet living in it. And he said we would be hated for following him. It sounds like they are going overboard with some things. the bible mentions nothing about makeup--but going overboard isn't wise. In a lot of things that come out of Hollywood and music and video games, God dislikes--violence, the occult, immoral sex--Hollywood lives by these 3 things--a lot of the music and video games as well. Some music isn't bad, as some movies aren't, just be careful what you support. After all Jesus said--satan is the ruler of this world. Gods word teaches all govts will be mislead to stand in opposition to Jesus--as well they are corrupt-Rev 16, Rev 19:17-19,, 2Peter 2:19) so one would not cast a vote for corruption, nor kill for them either. The encyclopedias ( facts of history) concerning many traditions and holidays say pagan additives were added to them, including Easter and Christmas---pagan additives are straight off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) advises not to partake off the table of demons-- unfortunately satan transforms into an angel of light( 2Cor 11:12-15) and uses things like love, sharing, etc but adds the table of demons. Clearly on this earth 99% are mislead.
I need spiritual people who really believe the Bible to help me answer this question. I'm afraid that it won't make a lot of sense to everyone else, and it barely makes sense to me, really.
Anyway, I think I was recently "saved" again, but I'm still really confused. I'm already extremely OCD about religious matters, and I'm worried that I damned myself with some kind of confusing promise to follow the rules the people at the church I attend preach. They are pretty strict about everything, no listening to non-Christian music (they don't even allow Classical music), no dancing (except non-choreographed "praise" dancing), no "worldly" activities (I'm afraid to ask, but I know going to the theatre, listening to concerts, attending festivals--like Mardi Gras--and other similar activities are off of the list, no gambling (I think raffles are included in this definition, too), no makeup (I can see justification for this, but some people, like me, need it,), etc. When I first started attending this church, I thought a lot of their rules were silly, perhaps overly cautious misinterpretations of scriptures, but now, especially with the idea that I told God I would follow this (even though I was honestly trying to say that I wouldn't follow it and just said it the wrong way) I've actually been feeling guilty about every day activities that might violate some of these rules. I'm at my wit's end. I wish I could be free of all of this confusion. I work as a teacher, and I have to show videos sometimes, and videos contain music, usually non-Christian music, for instance. I hate all of this confusion. I feel like I've somehow ruined my life.
I've been told to seek God about it, but I'm kind of afraid of what I'm going to learn. I do remember the man who vowed to God that he would sacrifice the first thing that came up to him if he won the war, and it was his own daughter...We truly do need to be careful with our words, but I can't imagine actually having to live my life like this.
Fear not. Rom10:4" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Rom 10:8" But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Jn6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
A Christian comedian/story teller once asked "You know those people in church who are so narrow they can see through a keyhole with both eyes?" Jesus said it this way: "You who strain at gnats but swallow camels" and my Psych of religion professor brought up the concept of "Status by negation", where people attain social status by the things they do not do: "I don't listen to rock music""Well neither do I and neither do I dance!""WELL! I don't do either of those things nor do I ..." Pretty soon you end up with a church filled with people sitting and being right and fear of being wrong. Back in Jesus' day those were the 'spiritual' Pharisees who loved the praise of men more than of God.
Now I noticed this in your post:
Quote:
I thought a lot of their rules were silly, perhaps overly cautious misinterpretations of scriptures,...
I believe this is discernment, the Spirit's testimony within. While I am sure the rules are meant to be a hedge to keep one from falling and helpful to some, it focuses on what is sinful versus "Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you." Phil 4:8,9 NASB
Find a church that understands that Christian spiritual growth is a journey where they focus on love, forgiveness, moving forward, exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." Gal 5:22,23 as opposed to dwelling on what you shouldn't do and you will nurture that seed planted in you to a good harvest as you become more Christ-like while you sojourn with Him.
Although I agree with all the comments about your church, the root cause of this problem was indicated in your original post:
"I'm already extremely OCD about religious matters"
I would advise you to seek professional help for this problem before you attempt to resolve your religious conflicts. Unfortunately, prayer alone is not likely to be enough.
Hi kmb501,
I think what your real issue here is, not this church or it's members and what they believe and promote, but your own insecurity with your personal views of the Creator. I say this gently with the hope that you do not misunderstand me. I only speak from a perspective of having been in similar shoes. The uneasiness stems from your own unstable footing. You need to allow your roots to grow deeper, personally. The roots of your own discovery of God. God is Love. Love is gentle, patient, kind, long-suffering. Love keeps no record of wrongs. Think on this and go within to where God speaks to each of us: our HEART.
Meditate on 1 corinthians 13.
It is the description of God.
"Those who love, know God... for God IS Love."
There is NO fear in love. Perfect love casts out ALL fear.
Think on these things deeply.
When fear rises up in you... is this of GOD? or man?
"love keeps no record of wrong". Why is this? Could it be that God sees more than we see? Could it be that God sees our HEART, and not just our little human weaknesses..? Man sees the human weaknesses, man does not or REFUSES to see the HEART in his fellow man. GOD SEES THE HEART. And thus, "keeps no record of wrongs". The wrongs are all fleeting temporary things, what TRULY matters is our HEART and it's GROWTH. Remember.. God IS Love. Jesus gave only TWO commands. What were these commands centered on? God.
Love God with all of your heart, mind and soul. (in other words, God wants you to SEEK him out! God wants you to discover him. You don't need anyone else in order to do this. you could be out on a deserted island by yourself and you can do this!! This is how your roots grow deeper and deeper and stronger and stronger. How else can you love anything or anyone with all of your heart, mind and soul if you don't YET know that thing with even PART of your mind, heart or soul? The first command is a PUSH to get us to SEEK God. To know God is to love him, because God is love. God wants us to DISCOVER What love is all about. It's the most powerful thing in the universe. God IS love. It isn't a "hippy flower power" emotion like a lot of people like to make fun of when you talk about this. No, LOVE is A FORCE.
The second command perfectly complements the first:
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Take your growing knowledge of God (LOVE) and put it out into the world.
What does heaven look like?
I'm pretty sure it looks like all creatures on this earth loving their neighbor as themselves.
When your roots are strong and you are confident in your own personal views, the views of others become neutral to you. You may agree or disagree with them, but it doesn't affect you in a way that causes you FEAR. This is the SURE sign... that you are not confident in what you believe. You need to work on that and develop your security over your own beliefs. Again, try pondering 1 corinthians 13, and better yet, ponder it to a beautiful piece of classical music, which brings you JOY. How appropriate!
peace to you friend,
have no fear.
all is well.
sparrow
Hi kmb501,
I think what your real issue here is, not this church or it's members and what they believe and promote, but your own insecurity with your personal views of the Creator. I say this gently with the hope that you do not misunderstand me. I only speak from a perspective of having been in similar shoes. The uneasiness stems from your own unstable footing. You need to allow your roots to grow deeper, personally. The roots of your own discovery of God. God is Love. Love is gentle, patient, kind, long-suffering. Love keeps no record of wrongs. Think on this and go within to where God speaks to each of us: our HEART.
Meditate on 1 corinthians 13.
It is the description of God.
"Those who love, know God... for God IS Love."
There is NO fear in love. Perfect love casts out ALL fear.
Think on these things deeply.
When fear rises up in you... is this of GOD? or man?
"love keeps no record of wrong". Why is this? Could it be that God sees more than we see? Could it be that God sees our HEART, and not just our little human weaknesses..? Man sees the human weaknesses, man does not or REFUSES to see the HEART in his fellow man. GOD SEES THE HEART. And thus, "keeps no record of wrongs". The wrongs are all fleeting temporary things, what TRULY matters is our HEART and it's GROWTH. Remember.. God IS Love. Jesus gave only TWO commands. What were these commands centered on? God.
Love God with all of your heart, mind and soul. (in other words, God wants you to SEEK him out! God wants you to discover him. You don't need anyone else in order to do this. you could be out on a deserted island by yourself and you can do this!! This is how your roots grow deeper and deeper and stronger and stronger. How else can you love anything or anyone with all of your heart, mind and soul if you don't YET know that thing with even PART of your mind, heart or soul? The first command is a PUSH to get us to SEEK God. To know God is to love him, because God is love. God wants us to DISCOVER What love is all about. It's the most powerful thing in the universe. God IS love. It isn't a "hippy flower power" emotion like a lot of people like to make fun of when you talk about this. No, LOVE is A FORCE.
The second command perfectly complements the first:
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Take your growing knowledge of God (LOVE) and put it out into the world.
What does heaven look like?
I'm pretty sure it looks like all creatures on this earth loving their neighbor as themselves.
When your roots are strong and you are confident in your own personal views, the views of others become neutral to you. You may agree or disagree with them, but it doesn't affect you in a way that causes you FEAR. This is the SURE sign... that you are not confident in what you believe. You need to work on that and develop your security over your own beliefs. Again, try pondering 1 corinthians 13, and better yet, ponder it to a beautiful piece of classical music, which brings you JOY. How appropriate!
peace to you friend,
have no fear.
all is well.
sparrow
I am SO glad you post on this board, sparrow. This is one of your best.
OP: This. Please read it and think about it until you've absorbed the wisdom.
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