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I'm sure you feel that I am the one that is blinded. The trinity is something i deal with on a daily basis in my ministry. And I'm often told that I lack faith for not beliving in it. But I think Jehovah God knows me best-and I'm certain he appreciates my refusal to accept something that I feel demeans Him.
You have two saviors? According to Jehovah there isn't.
Isaiah 43:10, 11, 13 Israel's Only Savior
"and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior"
Jehovah said he is the only one. You are not "Jehovah's" witness.
This is what Jesus said to those who didn't believe who he claimed to be...the I AM.. Jehovah.
And Jesus was perfect, right?
John 8:43, 44, 47 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you donot hear is thatyou do not belong to God."
Last edited by twin.spin; 06-26-2008 at 12:00 PM..
Well sadly, belief in the trinity is not a requirement. Try taking on the challenge, yours is a cop-out. Do you know the history of the trinity teaching, how or why it evolved? The NT church did not teach/believe it. The "and these three are one" in 1 John 5:7-8 are altered texts, do not believe me look at BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 50 versions and 35 languages., use the NKJV and read the footnotes.
"Believe on me (my teaching) and on Him (the Father) that sent me", seems in a nutshell what Jesus taught.
BTW Jesus and Christ are not the same words neither can they be used interchangeably.
In fact, corporately then individually, we are the Christ. Think about it.
You have two saviors? According to Jehovah there isn't.
Isaiah 43:10, 11, 13 Israel's Only Savior
"and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior"
Jehovah said he is the only one. You are not "Jehovah's" witness.
This is what Jesus said to those who didn't believe who he claimed to be...the I AM.. Jehovah.
And Jesus was perfect, right?
John 8:43, 44, 47 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you donot hear is thatyou do not belong to God."
Ah, but it's a good thing Jehovah provided His son to save me then, isnt it? Jehovah is my ultimate savior but Jesus is the instrument He used to do it. It's quite clear. Much clearer, I might add, then trying to explain why Jesus prayed to himself. It's best you not try to judge whether I am Jehovah's witness or not. That is for God to do, is it not? And, I must admit-I'm a little confused by the quotation marks around God's name. Very odd.
And I am so thankful that Jesus' language is clear to me. Otherwise, I might actually be in the same boat as those he was speaking to in John chapter 8. I'm thankful to God that I understand what I'm expected to do as His follower and what he requires of me. So many people do not.
Luke 2:11 Today in the town of David a Savior hs been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
Acts 5:31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentence and forgiveness to Israel.
Acts 13:23 " From this man's descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised."
Eph.5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
2 Tim. 1:10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior,Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
Titus 1:3-4 and at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by th command of God our Savior, To Titus, my true son; Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope --the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:6..he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior.
2 Peter 1:1 ...to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ....
2 Peter 2:11 and you will recieve a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ......
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
1 John 4: 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
"I am The Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
He's all things. Definition of all: (using Scott, Foresman Beginning Dictionary, 3rd grade Edition) 1. every one of: All the children came. You all know the teacher.2. everyone: All of us are going. 3. everything: All is well. 4. the whole of: the mice ate all the cheese. 5. the whole amount: All the bread has been eaten. 6. wholly; entirely: The cake is all gone. 7. each; apiece: The score was given at three all.
Yes! He is God, the Father, the Son the Holy Spirit, the Alpha, the Omega, the Beginning, the End!
He is all things perfect!! .................................................. ........Final Answer!
I decided to reword my first response to the above scriptures posted by Marianinark...I felt that I was not considerate of her feelings and opted instead to address the scriptures she felt supported her beliefs.
Luke 2: 11-If Christ was born...someone had to be ruling in heaven. I do not believe God has ever relinquished his throne. He is, instead, the provider of the ransom and savior, Jesus Christ.
Acts 5:31-If Christ was exalted, who exalted him?
Acts 13:23-God brought the savior Jesus, as He promised. Who promised? God or Jesus...it was God.
Eph 5:23-Christ is the head of the congregation as God's own appointed King.
2 Tim 1:10-Christ the Savior, yes indeed. Never denied that.
Titus 1:3-4 Interesting how Titus felt it was necessary to call God our Savior AND Christ our savior almost in the same breath. As if they were seperate persons, even.
Titus 2:13-that should actually read 'Great God and THE Savior'. I checked all three of my translations and they all make a distinction there.
Titus 3:6-WHO poured out on us generously thru Christ?
2 Pet texts all read Lord and Savior...Lord, not God. Lord is a title that absolutely applies to Jesus w/out giving him praise that rightly belongs to The Father.
1 John 4:14-If the father SENT the son, how can this sacrifice possibly have meaning if he were only sacrificing himself? How can he send himself? How would John 3:16 hold merit if Christ and God were the same person?
As far as the term 'savior' goes, I view it like this: I thank God ever day for my life...but my mother gave birth to me. Am I misdirecting my prayers? Should I instead be praying to my mother-after all, she's the one tht went thru the pain of childbirth.
"I am The Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
He's all things. Definition of all: (using Scott, Foresman Beginning Dictionary, 3rd grade Edition) 1. every one of: All the children came. You all know the teacher.2. everyone: All of us are going. 3. everything: All is well. 4. the whole of: the mice ate all the cheese. 5. the whole amount: All the bread has been eaten. 6. wholly; entirely: The cake is all gone. 7. each; apiece: [i]The score was given at three all.
He is all things perfect!! .................................................. ........Final Answer![/b]
Absolutely. I agree with all of that. But I don't agree with the trinity doctrine.
Last edited by alicenevada; 06-26-2008 at 01:39 PM..
[quote=alicenavada;4241583]I decided to reword my first response to the above scriptures posted by Marianinark...I felt that I was not considerate of her feelings and opted instead to address the scriptures she felt supported her beliefs.
Alice, I did not post scriptures to support my belief. I posted a list of scriptures that say Jesus is our Savior. I included a scripture that said both Jesus and God were Saviors(Titus 1:3-4). A previous poster ( Twin Spin) had posted only a couple that he said proved that only God was the Savior of Israel. I was showing that God sent His Son as our Savior.
I had no hidden agenda...
In a way , I was supporting your post where you said both God and Christ are Saviors. I agree with that.
The two natures of Jesus Philippians 2:6 - 8
1. very nature God (there is only one God)
2. nature of a servant
Jesus (Philippians 2:6-8) is the fulfillment of Isaiah 43:10, 11. "that I am he.
Israel's Only Savior
"and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he.
I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior"
Its not Jesus saying he is God, it is God saying he is Jesus.
Can we understand how the relationship works - No
They work so well together we can not comprehend. They are like a Rolex watch. Each are their own gears, parts, functions, but still only one watch.
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