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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
That seems to settle the matter. The rest of the post about knowing nothing of oneself but relying on God's inspiration for correct interpretation is really nothing obviously to do with what is the better or worse translation. I was thinking for the moment that those passages were about translation  not setting up a 'Poor in Spirit is right because God is telling him so' argument. |
Point of saying that is to lift the seekers' sights higher for confirmation; and not rely on my say so.
You, being a believer in the evolution theory,... not sure if you are able to receive from Him such discernment in other areas.
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So, assuming I understand where you are coming from (and if you are coming from anywhere other than Bat**** city, please correct me) would you please give some examples of where a KJV difference..shall we say...from the ESV or NIV is conveying some Truth that is missed by the later translations?
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Some believers do not believe God is using His gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people as a prayer language for the Holy Spirit to use in making His own intercessions. Some that err, do. Why? Because the errant translation of Romans 8:26-27 in the ESV & the NIV implies it whereas he KJV does not.
To begin this "argument" is to point out that the Greek text says that the intercessions of the Holy Spirit are unspeakable; that means the Spirit cannot utter them or make them know verbally to God.
At this link is where the King James Bible of chapter 8 is running parallel with the Greek texts;
Romans Chapter 8 - King James Bible With Strong's Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com
Scroll down to verse 26 and click on the last Greek text to confirm what I am showing it means below:
alaletos is defined as:
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from a - a 1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of lalew - laleo 2980; unspeakable:--unutterable, which cannot be uttered.
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Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit
itself maketh intercession for us with groanings
which cannot be uttered.
KJV
So that means the Holy Spirit cannot make His own intercessions directly Himself, even though He has them, because they cannot be uttered; hence no sound at all. This is why "itself" was used to testify that the Holy Spirit will serve as a means for how His intercessions will be known since He is not really making His intercessions Himself to make them known by Himself.
That is the point of the testimony of the Son in verse 27 as this "he" being the One that searches our hearts Whose identity can be known by referring to Hebrews 4:12-16 as this being the Word of God, Jesus Christ, that searches the thoughts & intents of the heart, as this is the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit as it is that "he" that is the Son, that is making the intercessions of the Spirit's known to the Father per according to the will of God since the man, Christ Jesus is the only Mediator between God and men; 1 Timothy 2:5.
Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
KJV
But looking at the ESV, NASB, & the NIV, you would think that sounds are being made when the Holy Spirit does give His intercessions directly by Himself.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit
himself intercedes for us
with groanings too deep for words.
ESV
Romans 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit
Himself intercedes for us
with groanings too deep for words;
NASB
Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit
himself intercedes for us
through wordless groans.
NIV
All three modern Bible versions are in error, implying that sounds are being made by these groanings when the KJV says these groanings are not uttered at all.
For those that believe in tongues being used as a prayer language by the Holy Spirit, they may see that verse as supportive of that supernatural tongue in spite of the fact that His intercessions are unspeakable.
Those in error will not be able to discern that this supernatural tongue is not of the Lord, but of the devil as Isaiah 8:19 testifies of how wizard and mediums that seek after familiar spirits will babble nonsense.
This is why believers are warned not to believe every spirit but test them; 1 John 4:1-7 because allot of believers are preaching something else when what they believe is the Holy Spirit; is falling over them "again", giving them a supernatural tongue that comes with no interpretation. They want to believe it is from God and so the phenomenon misleads other believers into thinking that this other baptism with the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues is of God; and so all focus on the Holy Spirit to come and fall on them, addressing Him in worship is how they can get this supernatural tongue without interpretation.
And yet, the Holy Spirit does not answer prayers. Only the Son does so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answered prayers; John 14:6,13-14.
They ignore the warning in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 about those that preach another Jesus or another spirit to receive as the examination of our faith is that Jesus Christ is in us by faith as promised; 2 Corinthians 13:5 & Galatians 3:14,26 & Hebrews 11:1,6
They do not even care to see how their errant modern Bible has a grammatical error in Romans 8:27.
Romans 8:27 And
he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[a]
the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
ESV
Romans 8:27 And
he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because
the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
NIV
Although the NASB retains the promoun "he", they are still led to believe that this "he" in verse 27 is about the Holy Spirit because verse 26 is about the Holy Spirit, instead of reading verse 27 as to how the unspeakbale intercessions of the Spirit's are made known when He Himself, cannot utter them.
Romans 8:27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the [a]saints according to the will of God.
NASB
But the KJV gives room to lean on the Lord to understand that because the intercessions of the Spirit's are unspeakable, then this he that knows the mind of the Spirit... is not the Spirit. The identity can be known by knowing Whom is searching our hearts which is confirmed by Hebrews 4:12-16, but there is an immediate information in verse 34 as to Who it is that is actually making these intercessions for us in that same chapter 8 of the Book of Romans.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
KJV.
The ESV,NIV, & NASB has it too, but the mentality is to read "also" as including the Holy Spirit's earlier when in light of what Romans 8:26-27 really means, then "also" as used in verse 34 was about the Son being at the right hand of God, who "also" makes intercessions for us by being at the right hand of God.
1 Timothy 4:1-2 prophesied about the falling away from the faith; and believers are believing every spirit that is coming over them "again" later in life after they had been saved by believing in Jesus Christ in thinking that was the Holy Spirit; especially when it brought a supernatural tongue. But because there is no interpretation, but babbling nonsense, they want to believe it is still of God in thinking it is a prayer language given by the Holy Spirit.
And who could tell them that is wrong? Modern Bibles testify wrongly that the Holy Spirit does make His own intercessions directly Himself and some Modern Bibles implies that sounds are being made.
The KJV does not. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for helping me to see that truth as kept in the KJV alone.
This is one reason why I rely on the KJV over the ESV,NIV,NASB, & all other modern Bibles which is to keep the faith which is the good fight and not chase after what they believe to be the Holy Spirit to receive "again" after a sign, even the sign of tongues that comes with no interpretation.
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