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No, I do not for ONE SECOND believe that the Oregon shooter was targeting Christians, asking people their religion, etc. I believe he was a mentally deranged man, period.
But, disgustingly, this has been turned into some sort of Christians-are-being-persecuted-so-let's-make-a-meme kind of thing. If you are on FB at all, I'm sure you've seen them.
So, do you, as a Christian, really believe that if someone has a gun to your head and asks if you are a Christian - knowing that if you say "No" you will live (in this fake scenario) - that you are supposed to say "Yes"? Do you truly believe you are supposed to die for your faith? That God would not prefer you to say "No" and be able to live out the rest of your life?
The issue is whether a Christian will cowardly deny Jesus in order to save his life and live a little longer in this world, or will he glorify the Lord by being willing to die as a martyr if the Lord puts him in that position? Many Christians have willingly gone to their martyrdom rather than lie and deny their faith. Polycarp was one such martyr.
As will many in the future seven year Tribulation.
Rev. 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
In America most liberal media will not recognize that Christians or other religions are a target as it best to not talk about these things , but if you listen to the BBC which is of the UK they have no problem talking about the motives of these deranged people who go after people of religion ............ See Christians have been persecuted by the demons and fallen angels because of the truth of Christ , and these spirits will manipulated people to bother them and most people resist with their moralities , but some are separable to listen to these unseen spirits
The issue is whether a Christian will cowardly deny Jesus in order to save his life and live a little longer in this world, or will he glorify the Lord by being willing to die as a martyr if the Lord puts him in that position? Many Christians have willingly gone to their martyrdom rather than lie and deny their faith. Polycarp was one such martyr.
As will many in the future seven year Tribulation.
Rev. 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Whoa there young Mike, this is a question we ALL must ask ourselves when or IF we re faced with a similar scenario.
A survivor of a car jacking--do they give up the car or fight back and possibly die.
The survivor of a robbery--do they give up the money or fight back and possibly die.
The survivor of a rape--do they give up the body or fight back and possibly die.
The survivor of a kidnapping--do they give up the freedom or fight back and possibly die.
All these folks all COWARDS for not fighting back? Are they all less a human because they choose life instead of death?
So by your illogical logic, it is far better to DIE than choose life? Really? When is the last time you played in the freeway? When is the last time you "trusted" God to keep you safe and drink a glass of poison? Or played with a few rattlers? Or stood next to someone smoking a cigarette near 50 gallons of gasoline?
Are you seriously rushing towards your next DEATH DEFYING event? Even Peter denied Christ--THREE TIMES and all was good between him and Jesus.
I have nothing but disdain and LAUGHTER for this martyr mentality. It is no different than the radical terrorist who believes they are going to heaven and will be rewarded with 72 virgins--except the evangelical fundie martyr believed they (and is it only MALES?) will be placed on the thrones next to Christ to JUDGE the rest of us? What a joke that people who couldn't or wouldn't find enough reason to preserve their own lives would DARE to judge those of us who fight like hell everyday to survive simply so we can live another day and continue the struggle to make this a better world.
Even PAULIE GIRL, the patron saint of the evangelical fundie, said it was better to BE IN THIS WORLD where he can do good than to be with Christ where his work would have no meaning.
COWARDS?? I can only say--GO FISH FOR YOURSELF IN THE ABYSS OF HELL before you DARE call another child of God a COWARD--You have NO IDEA what God has in store for that person and how that survivor will change the world in God's NAME...
Last edited by zthatzmanz28; 10-04-2015 at 08:07 AM..
Whoa there young Mike, this is a question we ALL must ask ourselves when or IF we re faced with a similar scenario.
A survivor of a car jacking--do they give up the car or fight back and possibly die.
The survivor of a robbery--do they give up the car or fight back and possibly die.
The survivor of a rape--do they give up the car or fight back and possibly die.
The survivor of a kidnapping--do they give up the car or fight back and possibly die.
All these folks all COWARDS for not fighting back? Are they all less a human because they choose life instead of death?
So by your illogical logic, it is far better to DIE than choose life? Really? When is the last time you played in the freeway? When is the last time you "trusted" God to keep you safe and drink a glass of poison? Or played with a few rattlers? Or stood next to someone smoking a cigarette near 50 gallons of gasoline?
Are you seriously rushing towards your next DEATH DEFYING event? Even Peter denied Christ--THREE TIMES and all was good between him and Jesus.
I have nothing but disdain and LAUGHTER for this martyr mentality. It is no different than the radical terrorist who believes they are going to heaven and will be rewarded with 72 virgins--except the evangelical fundie martyr believed they (and is it only MALES?) will be placed on the thrones next to Christ to JUDGE the rest of us? What a joke that people who couldn't or wouldn't find enough reason to preserve their own lives would DARE to judge those of us who fight like hell everyday to survive simply so we can live another day and continue the struggle to make this a better world.
Even PAULIE GIRL, the patron saint of the evangelical fundie, said it was better to BE IN THIS WORLD where he can do good than to be with Christ where his work would have no meaning.
COWARDS?? I can only say--GO FISH YOURSELF IN THE ABYSS OF HELL before you DARE call another child of God a COWARD--You have NO IDEA what God has in store for that person and how that survivor will change the world in God's NAME...
Your scenarios have nothing to do with the issue at hand. The issue, the only issue, being addressed is whether a Christian is willing to die for his faith, or whether he will deny being a Christian in order to avoid being killed.
Peter, after asserting that he would never deny Jesus even if he had to die with Him (Matthew 26:35) did in fact cowardly deny Him three times. The fact that he recovered afterwards and that ''all was good between him and Jesus'' is not the point. And his was a martyrs death in the end.
The apostle Paul never denied his faith and finally was martyred.
Many Christians in the early church chose martyrdom rather than to deny or to recant their faith. Others chose to recant rather than die. And yes, it is a choice each person must make. Be a coward or be courageous even unto death.
Your scenarios have nothing to do with the issue at hand. The issue, the only issue, being addressed is whether a Christian is willing to die for his faith, or whether he will deny being a Christian in order to avoid being killed.
Peter, after asserting that he would never deny Jesus even if he had to die with Him (Matthew 26:35) did in fact cowardly deny Him three times. The fact that he recovered afterwards and that ''all was good between him and Jesus'' is not the point. And his was a martyrs death in the end.
The apostle Paul never denied his faith and finally was martyred.
Many Christians in the early church chose martyrdom rather than to deny or to recant their faith. Others chose to recant rather than die. And yes, it is a choice each person must make. Be a coward or be courageous even unto death.
I have no problem doing what ever it takes to survive. I also know exactly what I am capable of doing in order to make survival possible.
Are you a Christian? The question is no different than; What is the speed and velocity of an unladen swallow?
Surviving is hardly cowardice.
Christians: Do you believe you are supposed to die for your faith? Are you taught this?
Yes, I was taught this as a Christian child/youth, and believed it. I finally woke up a few years ago and realized just how foolish such a belief is. God doesn't need anyone to die at the hands of disturbed human being for God's "glory" or to prove their sincerity of belief to God or anyone else. As a parent of young Christians, I do my best by them to counteract the wrong-headed/wrong-hearted things that I was brought up with, and that some Christians still teach.
Focus on how you can have courage in living your life and loving others. Grandiose gestures are not necessary.
I have no problem doing what ever it takes to survive. I also know exactly what I am capable of doing in order to make survival possible.
Are you a Christian? The question is no different than; What is the speed and velocity of an unladen swallow?
Surviving is hardly cowardice.
Some Christians are quite willing to deny Christ in order to save their lives in this world. Others (more spiritually mature, and with the right priorities) would never think of denying Him. It's a decision each Christian who finds himself in that situation must make.
An example from early church history.
Pliny the Younger, Letters 10.96-97
Pliny the Younger to the Emperor Trajan
'It is my practice, my lord, to refer to you all matters concerning which I am in doubt. For who can better give guidance to my hesitation or inform my ignorance? I have never participated in trials of Christians. I therefore do not know what offenses it is the practice to punish or investigate, and to what extent. And I have been not a little hesitant as to whether there should be any distinction on account of age or no difference between the very young and the more mature; whether pardon is to be granted for repentance, or, if a man has once been a Christian, it does him no good to have ceased to be one; whether the name itself, even without offenses, or only the offenses associated with the name are to be punished.
Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have observed the following procedure: I interrogated these as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.
Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ. ' [Bolding mine]
Your scenarios have nothing to do with the issue at hand. The issue, the only issue, being addressed is whether a Christian is willing to die for his faith, or whether he will deny being a Christian in order to avoid being killed.
Peter, after asserting that he would never deny Jesus even if he had to die with Him (Matthew 26:35) did in fact cowardly deny Him three times. The fact that he recovered afterwards and that ''all was good between him and Jesus'' is not the point. And his was a martyrs death in the end.
The apostle Paul never denied his faith and finally was martyred.
Many Christians in the early church chose martyrdom rather than to deny or to recant their faith. Others chose to recant rather than die. And yes, it is a choice each person must make. Be a coward or be courageous even unto death.
Denying Christ is the SAME as denying your faith, no matter how the fundie brain interprets it.
And tell me who will be sitting on the thrones of Revelation 20:4--will it be JUST MEN, or will WOMEN be given a few thrones as well?
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Christians: Do you believe you are supposed to die for your faith? Are you taught this?
