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If propitiation in this passage is what the majority of Christianity teaches it is, than John's idea of what it meant when he also wrote "God IS love" is nothing like what Paul meant when he defined love in 1 Cor 13.
Love and the need for a human sacrifice to appease wrath are in no way compatible. "I, LOVE, am patient, kind, keep no record of wrongs, and never fail, but if you sin somebody has to suffer horribly in order to make Me feel better! Believe it or else! "
9. Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.
10. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Did you have a point to make about this scripture?
If propitiation in this passage is what the majority of Christianity teaches it is, than John's idea of what it meant when he also wrote "God IS love" is nothing like what Paul meant when he defined love in 1 Cor 13.
Love and the need for a human sacrifice to appease wrath are in no way compatible. "I, LOVE, am patient, kind, keep no record of wrongs, and never fail, but if you sin somebody has to suffer horribly in order to make Me feel better! Believe it or else! "
With regards to the sacrifice... What if it's true?
The compatibility is about God sending His only Son to endure the treatment He received on earth for all humans who regularly sin against Him. That's love beyond anything a regular person will do.
And it's not solely about making people feel better.
With regards to the sacrifice... What if it's true?
What if what is true?
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The compatibility is about God sending His only Son to endure the treatment He received on earth for all humans who regularly sin against Him. That's love beyond anything a regular person will do.
And it's not solely about making people feel better.
Propitiation, as taught by many Christians, is about how seeing someone suffer makes God feel better and appeases God's wrath... somehow (and only as long as you believe it, otherwise God's anger with you still burns hot as Hades.) That's not love as described in 1 Cor 13.
With regards to the sacrifice... What if it's true?
Of course, it is true. Our savage and barbaric ancestors DID brutally scourge and crucify Jesus for His message of God's love and reconciliation and Jesus allowed it in perfect agape love of God and all of us, including His torturers and murderers. It is their same barbaric beliefs about God needing blood sacrifices to appease Him that caused them to interpret Christ's loving sacrifice to our brutality as a payment or appeasement to God!!! Only a truly primitive mind could possibly consider such a barbarous act a requirement of a loving Father. As Pleroo points out, there is no way a God who IS love could EVER have required blood sacrifices of innocents to appease Him for ANYTHING! To believe He required such a horrendous scourging and crucifixion as payment for anything is simply preposterous. Who could possibly love such a God???
Propitiation, as taught by many Christians, is about how seeing someone suffer makes God feel better and appeases God's wrath... somehow (and only as long as you believe it, otherwise God's anger with you still burns hot as Hades.) That's not love as described in 1 Cor 13.
Don't know about other Christians. The same word is used here.
1 John 2:1-2 - And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Appeasing God with regards to sin... that is the idea.
For the purpose of making it possible for God to forgive? That is not compatible with how the bible defines love (God IS love): Love holds no record of wrongs. Love does not require a sacrifice in order to be able to forgive. Can you even explain HOW a sacrifice could enable God, or anyone, to be able to forgive? HOW does witnessing the suffering and death of anyone benefit God?
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Don't know about other Christians. The same word is used here.
1 John 2:1-2 - And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Appeasing God with regards to sin... that is the idea.
Love and the need for a human sacrifice to appease wrath are in no way compatible.
It seems more and more people are using their God-given brain and figuring this out, Pleroo.
It rocks the boat to the core of those that actually have not woken up to this.
By saying this is an untrue belief...it could start a war!
THAT is how those folks cling to this belief...why? I don't know.
Because someone wrote it in a book...so toss all reason out the window, I guess.
It seems to be a Badge of Honor to simply believe and not question...even a little!
Why would God need to be appeased?
Same as the Volcano would stop erupting throwing in a virgin.
Oh brother.
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(and only as long as you believe it, otherwise God's anger with you still burns hot as Hades.) That's not love as described in 1 Cor 13.
