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Don't forget: the god of the Christians is also the god of the Muslims (and the Jews), it is one and the same Middle-Eastern deity. Allah is merely the Arabic for "god". So yes, he was getting off.
Please remember that both God/god and LORD/Lord are titles for a Supreme Being.
According to Scripture some people's god is their belly - Philippians 3:19
There are many gods - 1st Corinthians 8:5-6 - even Satan is the god of this world of badness - 2nd Cor. 4:4; Rev. 12:9,12
The Tetragrammaton ( YHWH ) only applies to the God of the Bible.
Someone didn't fail Logic 101. Also, even assuming a Creator does exist... ummm, it's a Creator. Not a Controller. There is basically nothing in the job description to say that God will (or can) prevent free will from happening. And given that God is paid less than a Walmart worker for running the universe, "this isn't my department".
If the deity exists one wonders if it was sitting on its cloud rubbing its hands and getting off on the terrible events in Paris? If it was omnipotent and loving it would have been capable of stopping this terrorist outrage, so why didn't it? Some Christians will praise the deity if something good happens but not blame it when bad things happen, WHY?
God didn't create a robotic creation, its a free will Creation. In every true "born again" person, He lives. He lives within them changing their Soul into a New Creation. A light comes on inside and we're told to not hide it under a bushel. So we Shine and tell others of this great Gift we carry inside Us. I would imagine, that many "born again" Christians will come and help those who got hurt. Tho We may be of the "few", we carry something Awesome inside Us, that wants to 'redeem Us back unto Him by way of His Son Jesus. We shouldn't heckle what we don't understand.
Shana I know you are locked steadfastly into this belief that God creates
evil
in the same manner I was and in the same manner I was once locked
steadfastly
into the belief of eternal torment, but let us reason
together
with the
scriptures if we could.
If you, then, though
you are evil,
know how to
give good gifts to your children,how much more
will your Father
in heaven give good gifts to those
who ask him!
A good man brings good
things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil
things out of the evil stored up in him.
Read this again ^^^^Shana without your biased leanings to God creating
evil. Do you not see here that we bring forth in our lives what is stored up
within us.........how can you say there is evil stored up in God ?, if evil
was
a vehicle to bring about good, then it should be perfectly acceptable
for the
good man to use that means too, unless of cause you believe in "do
as I say not
as I do", which I am sure you don't.
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
God does not
send evil, if he did he
would be a shifting shadow.
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then
peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial
and sincere.
There are so many clear and concise scriptures that clearly
demonstrate what does come from heaven it really takes a huge stretch of the
imagination and scripture gymnastics to believe anything to the contrary.
The wonderful truth Shana what many of us are to blind to see, is all that ever came from heaven is good, not evil being passed of as being good for a greater end. God is good there is no evil in him..... if that being true and everything brings forth after its kind...... I cannot understand how you believe God could think evil never mind do evil for a greater end.
There is are no scripture gymnastics, pcamps, and it is not about blindness.
There are scriptures which tell us that all is out of God. A few are found in Romans 11, John 1, Colossians 1, 1 Corinthians 8.
John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being
Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
1 Cor. 8
5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Romans 11
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen. (NASB)
I believe that God is ultimately and intrinsically good. He is not an evil God but I also believe that all is out of Him. I believe, as I shared before, that He withheld something of Himself when evil was brought into existence. I also believe that evil "in the hands of God" is not as evil is in the hands of man. God's ways are higher than our ways. We do not see beginning to end as He does. We are not the originator or the source, as He is. We don't know everything that He does. Our view is limited and our understanding is limited. Believing that all is out of God means that I trust Him and I know that evil did not develop or come into existence apart from His knowledge and will. He Himself planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden knowing full well what would happen and so this tells me that He has purpose for it.
We are not going to agree on this as we have discussed before, so we might as well agree to disagree again. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-14-2015 at 07:32 PM..
There is are no scripture gymnastics, pcamps and it is not about blindness. There are scriptures which tell us that all is out of God. A few are found in Romans 11, John 1, Colossians 1.
John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being
Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Romans 11
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen. (NASB)
I believe that God is ultimately and intrinsically good. He is not an evil God but I also believe that all is out of Him. I believe, as I shared before, that He withheld something of Himself when evil was brought into existence. I also believe that evil "in the hands of God" is not as evil is in the hands of man. God's ways are higher than our ways. We do not see beginning to end as He does. We are not the originator or the source, as He is. We don't know everything that He does. Our view is limited and our understanding is limited. Believing that all is out of God means that I trust Him and I know that evil did not develop or come into existence apart from His knowledge and will. He Himself planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden knowing full well what would happen and so this tells me that He has purpose for it.
We are not going to agree on this as we have discussed before, so we might as well agree to disagree again. God bless.
Any open minded person would take for granted that all things are all that which are true of the nature and character of God, unless of cause you hold to the mis guided handed down beliefs of those who did not know God in the way Jesus Christ did........The same Jesus Christ who saw and knew God better than all the OT saints put together . Jesus Christ was and IS the exact representation of the being of God, there was no evil thought or thing in him, and neither did he use any form of evil for a greater end. He representing ALL that God is, went around doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil. Jesus Christ is my litmus test. You are right we will never agree on this, I believed it for years Shana like I did with eternal torment and many other things , but none of it contributed to a renewing of the mind, but an hindrance to it, because it opposed the very essence of all that God is, which Jesus Christ by his life and teachings made known to us. He would have taught what you steadfastly hold to if it was remotely right..... he didn't. He taught it was the Father's good pleasure to give us the kingdom(the capacity to live our lives as we were created to by the knowledge of him and our true identity).
I have presented the scriptures that show you, pcamps, where my belief comes from. I am sorry if it offends you or if you cannot accept it. I have not put down your belief. I simply don't agree with you. Jesus is the exact representation of God and He referenced the scriptures. The scriptures that tell us that all is out of God were given to the disciples and the apostle Paul by the Lord and so I accept what they have taught us. These same scriptures tell us about Jesus. This does not present any kind of hindrance to me. So yes, we will agree to disagree. This will be my last comment to you on this. God bless and take care.
Any open minded person would take for granted that all things are all that which are true of the nature and character of God, unless of cause you hold to the mis guided handed down beliefs of those who did not know God in the way Jesus Christ did........The same Jesus Christ who saw and knew God better than all the OT saints put together . Jesus Christ was and IS the exact representation of the being of God, there was no evil thought or thing in him, and neither did he use any form of evil for a greater end. He representing ALL that God is, went around doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil. Jesus Christ is my litmus test. You are right we will never agree on this, I believed it for years Shana like I did with eternal torment and many other things , but none of it contributed to a renewing of the mind, but an hindrance to it, because it opposed the very essence of all that God is, which Jesus Christ by his life and teachings made known to us. He would have taught what you steadfastly hold to if it was remotely right..... he didn't. He taught it was the Father's good pleasure to give us the kingdom(the capacity to live our lives as we were created to by the knowledge of him and our true identity).
Matt. 24
37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. -Jesus
“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” -Jesus
**Matthew *10:28 *
37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. -Jesus
“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” -Jesus
**Matthew *10:28 *
There is only one thing that destroys yourself....... sowing to the flesh..... for contained within the seed of flesh sown is condemnation and destruction.
Then, after desire(the seed of the flesh) has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
I have presented the scriptures that show you, pcamps, where my belief comes from. I am sorry if it offends you or if you cannot accept it. I have not put down your belief. I simply don't agree with you. Jesus is the exact representation of God and He referenced the scriptures. The scriptures that tell us that all is out of God were given to the disciples and the apostle Paul by the Lord and so I accept what they have taught us. These same scriptures tell us about Jesus. This does not present any kind of hindrance to me. So yes, we will agree to disagree. This will be my last comment to you on this. God bless and take care.
Not offended at all Shana, I reject your belief that all things includes evil on the basis God cannot think evil or consider using it to create a good out come. For your information Jesus rarely quoted the scriptures too, and when he did it was more towards correcting mis guided beliefs about the ways of God.
Jesus taught the higher thoughts and ways of God and those higher ways will continue to break down all resistance to the true nature and character of God (that even in this day and age mis guided beliefs about the true nature and character leads still many to fall away), until his thoughts and ways fully accomplishes that which they are sent out for...........that is for all men to be restored back to their true identity.
Where was God in Paris when He was needed? Where was God when an insane man walked into a classroom in the Sandy Hook Elementary School and methodically shot 30 six year old children and their teacher in the head? And in what way is a God who refuses to act in the time of most desperate need, even to save the most innocent, any different from a God who isn't there?
In 1994 a tornado hit the Goshen Alabama Methodist Church during Sunday service, causing the walls of the church to collapse. Twenty people died including six children. A tornado is just a result of the forces which occur naturally on our planet. It has no agenda of good or evil. The Judeo/Christian God on the other hand very clearly DOES have an agenda according to Christians. Why would God allow the deaths of those in His own house of worship, including the most innocent, who were there in the very act of worshiping him, when all He had to do was to prevent the walls from collapsing with a thought? The problem is that when put to the test, we invariably observe that make believe is routinely unaffected by the harsh realities of real life. If a wall falls on you, or a mad man shoots you in the head, make believe does not serve as protection. Even for innocent children. Because in real life what we actually observe is that when the chips are down and faith is confronted by reality, reality will ALWAYS win out. When the chips are down and a Supreme Being would really REALLY come in handy God, invisible unknowable assumed to exist God, will invariably act in exactly the same manner as a God who isn't actually there. A God who refuses to act even in the face of the ultimate crisis of life and death for the most innocent of His followers is a God who corresponds in every way to A GOD WHO NEVER EXISTED TO BEGIN WITH! This is as close to an empirical test for the actual existence of God as one might reasonably hope for. And in these sorts of make or break tests, the result for the question "does God exist?" invariably corresponds in every way to a negative finding. Piedmont Journal - Tried by Deadly Tornado, An Anchor of Faith Holds - NYTimes.com
You see? This is EXACTLY why I became a deist. I can stand on both sides of the fence. I can acknowledge that there is indeed a God, otherwise how did this universe and all that's in it get here in such an ordered fashion? On the other hand, as a deist I recognize that God doesn't lift a finger to assist in this world. Man is responsible for everything that happens outside of Mother Nature and natural disasters. God has no involvement in any of it and we can see the proof of this every day we awake. A school gets shot up and 50 beautiful children die. Man's fault, not God's. A wing falls off an airplane, it crashes and all 300 people including babies and little children perish. Boing's fault, not God's. Man with ten mouths to feed loses the lottery by one number and a millionaire wins it. Laws of chance, not God. Two million children die of leukemia, AIDS and hunger. Nature, bad parents' behavior and bad luck of the draw. Has nothing to do with God. The Bible? Totally ineffectively at providing answers, just trying to answer some tough questions with feeble excuse making and fables.
When you're a deist, you pitch all the Christian nonsense and see how the world really operates---on its own term's, not ours and not God's. If God has helped us in any respect it's this: He's kept us from extinction for roughly 100 million years against all odds we should be extinct.
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