Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-18-2016, 10:49 PM
 
18,250 posts, read 16,920,340 times
Reputation: 7553

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchellmckain View Post
Gnosticism is a gospel of salvation by knowledge and it is rampant in Christianity today, for many think their salvation comes from believing the right dogmas. This can get really legalistic to where people take it upon themselves to sit in the judgment seat of God and say who is going to heaven and who is going to hell according to what doctrines they believe.

I believe in a gospel of salvation entirely by the grace of God, who asks us to have faith, which is made real in how we serve those in need. That is what I think Jesus, Paul and James were teaching.

Definitely Paul. Definitely NOT James and Jesus!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-19-2016, 12:00 AM
 
23,654 posts, read 17,511,041 times
Reputation: 7472
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchellmckain View Post
Gnosticism is a gospel of salvation by knowledge and it is rampant in Christianity today, for many think their salvation comes from believing the right dogmas. This can get really legalistic to where people take it upon themselves to sit in the judgment seat of God and say who is going to heaven and who is going to hell according to what doctrines they believe.

I believe in a gospel of salvation entirely by the grace of God, who asks us to have faith, which is made real in how we serve those in need. That is what I think Jesus, Paul and James were teaching.
Of course, but we still need to co-operate with God or we can lose our salvation as Paul warned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2016, 12:04 AM
 
23,654 posts, read 17,511,041 times
Reputation: 7472
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Definitely Paul. Definitely NOT James and Jesus!
Jesus preached many times about hell in the gospels. Many fell away from following Him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2016, 04:01 AM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,865,381 times
Reputation: 5434
Most people don't trust themselves. So they need an authority, such as a book, which will tell them what to believe.

It doesn't seem to matter that no two people will interpret the book in the same way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2016, 04:25 AM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,293,297 times
Reputation: 2746
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Jesus preached many times about hell in the gospels. Many fell away from following Him.
No he didn't, the few times he did it was not the hell you believe in. While we are at it, which part of this verse is to be taken literal and which part isn't?.

Nobody fell away because of what he said about hell.

If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2016, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,536 posts, read 1,709,508 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I am a person who believes all religions are wrong. And nothing invalidates a belief system more quickly and emphatically for me that one which claims all others except IT are wrong.
Yes. Humans by nature have a weakness to be "holier than thou".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2016, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,536 posts, read 1,709,508 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Anybody?

Anybody...?

Come on out! Gnock gnock!

(You knew that was coming.)
Funny, indeed. Here's another one:

Gnock, gnock, gnocking on heaven's door ... (the 70s song)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2016, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,536 posts, read 1,709,508 times
Reputation: 1399
Okay, I read to about the point where it says:

"the promoter of atheism believes in a kind of secret knowledge. It isn’t knowledge that is kept from prospective converts (if that is the right word). It is accessible to anyone who uses reason rightly. The problem is that most people don’t, and so this knowledge is kept from them by their own intellectual errors. True knowledge is all around them, but their syllogistic errors and their emotional needs (religion is a crutch for those who don’t yet exercise their minds properly) keep them from grasping this."

I will be the first to admit, I don't know atheists as a group. They mostly seem to float around as individuals, though there are some "pop" atheists that may be vying to make atheism a dogmatic set beliefs or another religion, so to speak. This article is a real mish mash, almost a word salad and doesn't cleave together enough to make a point. Calling Mormons and Atheisits "Gnostics" seems like some hard grasping at straws.

Any special knowledge and understanding I have is indeed SPECIAL to me only because it is my understanding that I am most concerned with and charged with keeping. I am not in charge of enlightening others - that is Christ's work. I believe that Christ is the light of the world and that is the light that gives light to everyone who comes into this world. Does that sound like a Gnostic belief?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2016, 08:50 AM
 
18,250 posts, read 16,920,340 times
Reputation: 7553
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Jesus preached many times about hell in the gospels. Many fell away from following Him.

James definitely did NOT teach salvation by faith alone. He very clearly taught salvation by faith plus works.


Quote:
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. James 2:17


So did Jesus or haven't you read Matthew 25:31-46?


Christian apologists do this painful awkward dance trying to reconcile Paul with James and it is embarrassing to listen to because in the end you're left asking a question, "Did I just hear the biggest con job in history?"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-10-2016, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
595 posts, read 331,911 times
Reputation: 88
Both Jesus and Paul taught salvation by grace alone.
In Matthew 19 someone asks him what he must do to have eternal life. Jesus answer is "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
In Romans 3:24, Ephesians 2:8 and elsewhere Paul teaches that salvation is a gift of grace from God.

Jesus, Paul and James all taught that what God asks of us is faith, but NONE of them taught that what you do doesn't matter. All of them made it abundantly clear that works of love for your fellow human beings in need were central to how God viewed your relationship with Him: Jesus in Matthew 25:31-46, and Paul Romans 2 and 1 Cor 13. In the epistle of James, he explains that faith without works is dead, and religion which is pure and undefiled before God is to visit orphans and widows and to keep oneself unstained from the world. Even back in Isaiha chapter 1, God complains that religion without justice and doing good for those in need simply makes God sick of the whole thing.

---

As for hell and eternal punishment, Jesus certainly did teach this many times. BUT you can certainly say that nothing in the Bible taught a whole lot directly about either heaven or hell. I think making to much of oblique parable references to them is a mistake. I think it suffices to say there is indeed a polarity in ultimate human destiny. Frankly I think this comes from the self-destructive nature of bad habits (sin) themselves. Either you fight against them (with help) or they eat away at you from you within until there is nothing left.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top