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Admittedly I know far less about the bible than most people who frequent this board. Something I was thinking of, for the sole reason it fits my worldview chosen by me, is about the question posed by the Devil(?). Also, I'm not a bible believer but still will read it if prompted.
Hebrews 2 5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
a son of man that you care for him?
7 You made them a little[a] lower than the angels;
you crowned them with glory and honor
8 and put everything under their feet.”[b][c]
In putting everything under them,[d] God left nothing that is not subject to them.[e] Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.[f] 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
and
Psalms 8
4What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him? 5Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty! 6You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,…
This looks to me like God wouldn't want his children (Gen 1:27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.) groveling for forgiveness or believing himself less than. When we degrade ourselves by calling ourselves sinners are we degrading our creator as well? Satan was jealous of us and wanted us knocked down a peg, God wanted us all wrapped in glory. What if there never was a fall except we were tricked into believing we aren't good enough?
I expect this theory to be shot down but this is an example of a question I had while younger but was never allowed to ask.
This looks to me like God wouldn't want his children (Gen 1:27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.) groveling for forgiveness or believing himself less than. When we degrade ourselves by calling ourselves sinners are we degrading our creator as well? Satan was jealous of us and wanted us knocked down a peg, God wanted us all wrapped in glory. What if there never was a fall except we were tricked into believing we aren't good enough?
I expect this theory to be shot down but this is an example of a question I had while younger but was never allowed to ask.
If we could stop sinning we would Not die. Because we can't stop sinning we die.
We can't resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can resurrect us.
Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18
Why did Adam and Eve loose access to the Garden of Eden ?
Adam chose to break God's Law, thus making himself a rebel against God.
How many trees on Earth, out of all the trees on Earth only one tree belong to God.
God's tree stood for the law of the land.
By Adam breaking the Law, then Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law into man's hands.
Adam set up People Rule as being superior to God Rule.
Since father Adam was gifted with free-will choices then God does Not interfere with our choices.
Man Rule has proven that man can Not establish Peace on Earth - Ecclesiastes 8:9
So, the passing of time was needed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
When we break 'Caesar's ' law it is called a crime. Do you know anyone who has Not broken a law of Caesar's ?
Many have 'sinned' against Caesar by breaking the motor-vehicle code, perhaps by speeding.
So, we are all sinners because we all lean toward wrongdoing.- Romans 5:12
We need to keep on the watch to keep upright to lean toward rightdoing or righteousness.
If we were Not good enough, then 1st John 1:7 would Not apply that Jesus' blood covers us.
The difference is that we sin either or purpose or not, willfully or not, intentionally or not, premeditated or not.
It is the willfull practice of sin that can bring us to destruction. - Hebrews 10:26; 2 Peter 3:9
When Jesus begins his 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth there will be healing for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2. Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of earth's nations. In other words, Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed - Genesis 12:3; 22:18. Blessed with healing so that even enemy death will be No more ever again. - 1st Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8. No one will say, "I am sick....." - Isaiah 33:24
Admittedly I know far less about the bible than most people who frequent this board. Something I was thinking of, for the sole reason it fits my worldview chosen by me, is about the question posed by the Devil(?). Also, I'm not a bible believer but still will read it if prompted.
Hebrews 2 5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is mankind that you are mindful of them, a son of man that you care for him? 7 You made them a little[a] lower than the angels; you crowned them with glory and honor 8 and put everything under their feet.”[b][c] In putting everything under them,[d] God left nothing that is not subject to them.[e] Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.[f] 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
and
Psalms 8
4What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him? 5Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty! 6You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,…
This looks to me like God wouldn't want his children (Gen 1:27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.) groveling for forgiveness or believing himself less than. When we degrade ourselves by calling ourselves sinners are we degrading our creator as well? Satan was jealous of us and wanted us knocked down a peg, God wanted us all wrapped in glory. What if there never was a fall except we were tricked into believing we aren't good enough?
I expect this theory to be shot down but this is an example of a question I had while younger but was never allowed to ask.
We were LOWERED, NOT WILLINGLY into this bondage of vanity (= flesh with it's propensity for missing the mark, the mark being the mind of Christ, which is SPIRIT), but He subjected the same (us) with hope, that hope being Christ (Spirit man Seed of Father) IN YOU, the hope of glory. You IN CHRIST, IS the glory being manifested.
Now why did He do it? Because we were not willing to lay down our lives for Him while we were yet one with Him from the foundation of the world, because we had never known anything but His love. He wanted to have fellowship with someone that was capable of loving Him as He loves us, and no greater love has any man than he lay down his life for his friend (thus Abraham called G-d's friend).
You must first have something OTHER THAN LOVE to lay down to be able to fulfill the requirement. We were NOT WILLING there, but the goal is to be willing here before we leave this place.
The ability to sin is the flesh nature we were lowered into, and it's the same as the dark black poisonous pitch that Mose's (name means to draw out of the waters) ark was coated in. Without that pitch, he would have drowned. Without the pitch in Noah's ark, they would have drowned. And similarly, without compost/decay in soil, a seed will not grow.
Tares, that we were all seeded with while we, Adam, slept, are black and poisonous at maturity, which means you can't tell it from wheat until it matures, and thus the command to leave the tares alone until the harvest because you will hurt the wheat. Why? Because all of this means, it was/is a necessary tool for an expected and desired end that is better. Like a muscle gains strength from resistance and an army grows stronger with each victory, so too do we need something to overcome that is in opposition.
It therefore serves a purpose, and He wants us to have something to compare HIM and His love, TO, that we might CHOOSE HIM. Sin satisfies for a season we are told, but like a slow acting poison, eventually it kills you, usually after making you so miserable you wish you were dead already before long. And then the way to "die legally" (as in according to His plan) appears, when you are miserable enough and recognize within yourself something is missing.
And that is when you count yourself as the soil for the Son Seed to grow in, not beating yourself up for missing the mark, but continuing to press into the mind of Christ, wherein there is fullness of joy and life forevermore. You exchange your fallen identity for the one you had before in Him. We were lowered into this realm, but a Door was placed in the heavenly realm for us to return back to Father through, and that is His Son. Which is why no man can come to the Father except through Him.
So then His intentions towards us FROM THE BEGINNING were good and not evil with a desired end in sight. Peace
Thanks for responding you two. You both kind of answered but that's not really what I am getting at. I'll clarify later as the Heroine is kicking in, Just kidding trying to conjure up some Apostate imagery. It's really not as glamorous as they make it sound.
"The Lord is the God of the living not of the dead."
He is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets.
"There will be wailing and grinding of the teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of heaven but you yourselves kept out."
We were LOWERED, NOT WILLINGLY into this bondage of vanity (= flesh with it's propensity for missing the mark, the mark being the mind of Christ, which is SPIRIT), but He subjected the same (us) with hope, that hope being Christ (Spirit man Seed of Father) IN YOU, the hope of glory. You IN CHRIST, IS the glory being manifested.
Now why did He do it? Because we were not willing to lay down our lives for Him while we were yet one with Him from the foundation of the world, because we had never known anything but His love. He wanted to have fellowship with someone that was capable of loving Him as He loves us, and no greater love has any man than he lay down his life for his friend (thus Abraham called G-d's friend).
You must first have something OTHER THAN LOVE to lay down to be able to fulfill the requirement. We were NOT WILLING there, but the goal is to be willing here before we leave this place.
The ability to sin is the flesh nature we were lowered into, and it's the same as the dark black poisonous pitch that Mose's (name means to draw out of the waters) ark was coated in. Without that pitch, he would have drowned. Without the pitch in Noah's ark, they would have drowned. And similarly, without compost/decay in soil, a seed will not grow.
Tares, that we were all seeded with while we, Adam, slept, are black and poisonous at maturity, which means you can't tell it from wheat until it matures, and thus the command to leave the tares alone until the harvest because you will hurt the wheat. Why? Because all of this means, it was/is a necessary tool for an expected and desired end that is better. Like a muscle gains strength from resistance and an army grows stronger with each victory, so too do we need something to overcome that is in opposition.
It therefore serves a purpose, and He wants us to have something to compare HIM and His love, TO, that we might CHOOSE HIM. Sin satisfies for a season we are told, but like a slow acting poison, eventually it kills you, usually after making you so miserable you wish you were dead already before long. And then the way to "die legally" (as in according to His plan) appears, when you are miserable enough and recognize within yourself something is missing.
And that is when you count yourself as the soil for the Son Seed to grow in, not beating yourself up for missing the mark, but continuing to press into the mind of Christ, wherein there is fullness of joy and life forevermore. You exchange your fallen identity for the one you had before in Him. We were lowered into this realm, but a Door was placed in the heavenly realm for us to return back to Father through, and that is His Son. Which is why no man can come to the Father except through Him.
So then His intentions towards us FROM THE BEGINNING were good and not evil with a desired end in sight. Peace
The essentials of our purpose are here in the symbolic mumbo jumbo despite your misinterpretation and misunderstanding of God's motives. If you would only realize that the childhood of an entire species is as unique a period as the individual childhoods of its members, you would not make the mistakes you do interpreting our species' childhood interactions with God. Our entire species had to EVOLVE the capability for increased levels of spiritual maturity, just as each individual member in each generation has to develop those capabilities toward spiritual maturity at their generation's level. This is not immediately obvious because we assess everything from our adult perspective as if our ancestors were at the same level we are today. They were not. I am glad you posted this clarification of your views, Rbbi. I misjudged you. We advocate the same end, you just have an immature set of reasons, motives, and expectations, IMO.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 08-21-2016 at 09:19 PM..
The essentials of our purpose are here in the symbolic mumbo jumbo despite your misinterpretation and misunderstanding of God's motives. If you would only realize that the childhood of an entire species is as unique a period as the individual childhoods of its members, you would not make the mistakes you do interpreting our species childhood interactions with God. Our entire species had to EVOLVE the capability for increased levels of spiritual maturity, just as each individual member in each generation has to develop those capabilities toward spiritual maturity at their generation's level. This is not immediately obvious because we assess everything from our adult perspective as if our ancestors were at the same level we are today. They were not. I am glad you posted this clarification of your views, Rbbi. I misjudged you. We advocate the same end, you just have an immature set of reasons, motives, and expectations, IMO.
Good thing for me, I'm not moved by any opinions but His, then, isn't it? Peace
The essentials of our purpose are here in the symbolic mumbo jumbo despite your misinterpretation and misunderstanding of God's motives. If you would only realize that the childhood of an entire species is as unique a period as the individual childhoods of its members, you would not make the mistakes you do interpreting our species' childhood interactions with God. Our entire species had to EVOLVE the capability for increased levels of spiritual maturity, just as each individual member in each generation has to develop those capabilities toward spiritual maturity at their generation's level. This is not immediately obvious because we assess everything from our adult perspective as if our ancestors were at the same level we are today. They were not. I am glad you posted this clarification of your views, Rbbi. I misjudged you. We advocate the same end, you just have an immature set of reasons, motives, and expectations, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Good thing for me, I'm not moved by any opinions but His, then, isn't it? Peace
I wouldn't cal it a good thing, but it seems to be an innocuous one. Becoming more like Christ is the goal, the reasons are less important. Of course, when the reasons cause you to mistreat or discriminate against anyone in the name of God, that corrupts your attempts to be like Christ. That could be a problem.
From the beginnings when God chose man to be His family over the angels then this rebellion in heaven began, , so the fallen angels who became satan and demons of the flesh became the destruction to Gods creation ............Were Jesus became the image of God , and those who follow Jesus and drink from Jesus cup will be one with God as the family of God sovereign
What if death came first and sin was simply an explanation? It has to be someone's fault because if it's not it can't be controlled. What if sin is just a way of saying "I'll make it MY fault then I have control over it in some way"? What if calling yourself and others sinners is just a way of you seeking control which is not yours. What are all those scriptures about love for each other if we spend our life trying to master death?
putting the bong down now...just kidding it's a crack pipe...no it's not it's cucumber slices in vinegar. Trying to keep up the image of an Apostate is grueling!
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