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500 years before the Gospels is still thousands of years after Genesis; but i am struck by how closely the Hindu model once conformed to the tenets of Christianity, even down to observance of One God, although that has deteriorated now.
Regarding your son, you've been good parents toward him. Thank you. Most people in his (or my) situation would want nothing more than to have parents who would say something like "...it wouldn't change one bit his dad's or my feelings towards him." Unfortunately I do not believe it is nearly as common as you think it is. Based on my many conversations with people who've left while their parents stayed fully active, you are the unique situation.
I guess it's impossible for either of us to know for sure. You say you know a lot of other people who have left the Church and have had experiences like yours. I know a lot of people who have had family members leave the Church and have had experiences like mine. So I guess both perspectives are not only legitimate but, in fact, common. As far as I'm concerned, absolutely nothing matters as much as my relationships with my husband and kids, and I would do almost anything to keep them intact.
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I know we don't talk about the specifics over on Utah/SLC, well... some of us do, and some of us get more heavily moderated , but I do have a negative perspective on the church. I hope you don't take this personally. I believe the people within the church (well, some of the people..) are the best thing the church has going for it. Possibly the only thing the church has going for it, but overall I do consider the blind-obedience and dogmatic structure of the church to be harmful and I happily speak out against it. The treatment of the church toward LGBTs is harmful. The incredibly backward teachings about sexuality for young adults, super harmful. The teachings that working class families should pay tithing before buying food or investing in retirement, that's harmful. I do not wish to personally offend, but if that is an effect of doing so, well, I believe the positives of introducing prospective members to the realities of Mormonism outweigh the negatives of damaging potential relationships. I've been deeply affected by the teachings of the church and the way it negatively influences some people to behave toward former members. Whether or not these are doctrinal or cultural teachings isn't terribly important to me, because they exist regardless.
Well, if this were a thread on "Why do people stay in an imperfect religion?" I'd have quite a bit to say on the subject. It isn't, though, and so I won't elaborate on my on feelings, other than to say that I feel as, for me personally, there have been more advantages in being raised Mormon than disadvantages. If you were to hang out over here on the Christianity/Religion forums, I think some of my opinions might actually surprise you. Trust me, I do have issues with a number of Church policies and have never been afraid to speak my mind, even when it means disagreeing with the Church's leadership.
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I think it's clear from most of my posts over there that I loved Utah. I loved living in West Valley and was quite active in the community there. I lived, worked, played and sat on a community board there. We didn't move to Detroit because we thought it was better than SLC. No, we ran away. My wife and I agreed that running away was the only way to save our marriage and... it worked. Her family openly hated me for not being an RM and would chastise her about having a job, going on a Sunday hike/picnic, or for her husband not attending family temple nights. Here they don't know about those things. They don't even know that she has since turned into a non-believer, but that's what certain circles in the Mormon faith behave toward former members. It's why Utah experienced such cultural isolation up until the past couple decades.
I think the move was probably an excellent one for you. Your in-laws' behavior, quite frankly, sucks. I'm sorry for you, in this regard, but even more so for your wife. No parent should treat his child the way they treated her, particularly over something such as a difference of opinion when it comes to religious beliefs.
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Sorry, I've rambled on but... that's part of why I hold such disdain Mormonism. I've had terrible experiences with it. I'll try to be less abrasive toward you in the future. Your story changed my opinion of you.
Thank you for your honesty and the time you took to explain your position. I do hope we can be friends, despite our views on Mormonism. Don't freeze up there in Michigan this winter!
So, you believe one really old source, but not another.
I never said I believe in Krishna. How old are you, jimmi? I think a more mature adult would have gotten my point. The point is that both sets of circumstances are nearly identical for each god. So why does Jesus take precedent when we can no more prove Jesus resurrected and ascended than we can Krishna? The reason Jesus takes precedent is because Constantine chose Jesus Christ to be his official god for his Holy Roman Empire. And as anyone in position of power knows once you are top dog you wipe out all other dogs that might challenge your throne of power. This is why immediately after being appointed top dog god of the Empire the Christian leaders embarked on a reign of terror to wipe out ever other religion within reach of the Empire. The destruction of the library of Alexandria was one such terrorist attack on the greatest library of the age. Tens of thousands of valuable manuscripts were destroyed because they represented too big a threat to Christianity's survival to be allowed to exist. It's a basic law of the jungle, right? The Christian leaders obviously had no faith Jesus would save them from extinction so they embarked upon a mission to save themselves. "Death to the pagan scum, it's God's will, it's God's will" right?
500 years before the Gospels is still thousands of years after Genesis; but i am struck by how closely the Hindu model once conformed to the tenets of Christianity, even down to observance of One God, although that has deteriorated now.
The spiritual evolution in the spiritual fossil record is replete with similar spiritual templates. Syncretism is the operative word for the spiritual evolution of our understanding of God. But the Jesus narrative is the most sophisticated and spiritually evolved of those that preceded it.
The spiritual evolution in the spiritual fossil record is replete with similar spiritual templates. Syncretism is the operative word for the spiritual evolution of our understanding of God. But the Jesus narrative is the most sophisticated and spiritually evolved of those that preceded it.
I never said I believe in Krishna. How old are you, jimmi? I think a more mature adult would have gotten my point. The point is that both sets of circumstances are nearly identical for each god. So why does Jesus take precedent when we can no more prove Jesus resurrected and ascended than we can Krishna? The reason Jesus takes precedent is because Constantine chose Jesus Christ to be his official god for his Holy Roman Empire. And as anyone in position of power knows once you are top dog you wipe out all other dogs that might challenge your throne of power. This is why immediately after being appointed top dog god of the Empire the Christian leaders embarked on a reign of terror to wipe out ever other religion within reach of the Empire. The destruction of the library of Alexandria was one such terrorist attack on the greatest library of the age. Tens of thousands of valuable manuscripts were destroyed because they represented too big a threat to Christianity's survival to be allowed to exist. It's a basic law of the jungle, right? The Christian leaders obviously had no faith Jesus would save them from extinction so they embarked upon a mission to save themselves. "Death to the pagan scum, it's God's will, it's God's will" right?
lol, it's funny because it's true! but you are describing the established church, and not the Church. And also this is all in the Bible. Krishna loses out to Genesis, when Christ was prophesied, so there is a valid argument that the...doctrine? of 'counterfeit first'--is that a doctrine? bears some reflection, possibly.
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, but I do have a negative perspective on the church. I hope you don't take this personally. I believe the people within the church (well, some of the people..) are the best thing the church has going for it. Possibly the only thing the church has going for it, but overall I do consider the blind-obedience and dogmatic structure of the church to be harmful and I happily speak out against it. The treatment of the church toward LGBTs is harmful. The incredibly backward teachings about sexuality for young adults, super harmful. The teachings that working class families should pay tithing before buying food or investing in retirement, that's harmful. I do not wish to personally offend, but if that is an effect of doing so, well, I believe the positives of introducing prospective members to the realities of Mormonism outweigh the negatives of damaging potential relationships. I've been deeply affected by the teachings of the church and the way it negatively influences some people to behave toward former members. Whether or not these are doctrinal or cultural teachings isn't terribly important to me, because they exist regardless.
It isn't, though, and so I won't elaborate on my on feelings, other than to say that I feel as, for me personally, there have been more advantages in being raised Mormon than disadvantages. If you were to hang out over here on the Christianity/Religion forums, I think some of my opinions might actually surprise you. Trust me, I do have issues with a number of Church policies and have never been afraid to speak my mind, even when it means disagreeing with the Church's leadership.
