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Philosophically, we are trapped in a mindset of obedience for obedience sake instead of as a way to achieve our goal or purpose. God is not interested in obedience. God is interested in helping us achieve our very purpose in existing. God is not a tyrant who must be obeyed. God is a Father who wants us to succeed in becoming loving beings.
Philosophically, we are trapped in a mindset of obedience for obedience sake instead of as a way to achieve our goal or purpose. God is not interested in obedience. God is interested in helping us achieve our very purpose in existing. God is not a tyrant who must be obeyed. God is a Father who wants us to succeed in becoming loving beings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
You say this but call my ancestors barbarians...
That would be OUR ancestors, Richard, and there can be no disputing it. They WERE barbarians in that era.
The genuine or true word of god must be separated from the chaff of fallible, human ideologies that clutter the core message of the Scriptures (i.e., the false penal substitution theory, that of eternal damnation, an underworld of pain and suffering, etc.), which were contrived from the imaginations of men and various cultural mythologies. You might choose to follow these false teachings under the guise of grace, but I do not. Men were called to be accountable, not to pass the buck. And as you noted with Luke 5:31-32, those that are whole are not in need of a physician, rather he called those who are sick and missed the mark to repentance. So, when are you going to drop the foolishness that has been taught in the Churches. Or, are you not yet able to distinguish the differences?
That which you call "Foolishness that has been taught in the Churches", I call the Biblical teaching of salvation. I was reading Matthew 18 this morning and couldn't help but think of you and this topic. It was Jesus Christ that taught about the fires of hell, and it was He that came to save that which was lost. Both of which you like to deny as far as I know, you think you are not lost, and you think you won't go to hell as the punishment for your sin.
Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
It is not the chaff of fallible human ideologies, it is the Scripture themselves that teach our fallenness and our need for a Savior. The only way you are going to escape judgment and hell is if you are to be found in Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures, and yes the Scriptures are very offensive to self-righteousness!
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Sin is so much more than just "missing the mark", I pray the Lord will reveal this to you, because however great your sin is, however unpayable this sin-debt is on your part, God's grace is so much greater, and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is a more than sufficient payment - but we first have to see our disease and need for a Physician before we flee to Him to be cured.
Luke 5:31-32 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Whether, you (generally speaking) acknowledge it or not, the Scriptures are syncretistic in nature and have been mixed (blended) with various beliefs from a multitude of different cultures throughout time. And much of those beliefs are a derivative of the human imagination and mythology. What is really absurd in the notion that you must tear down a person or see yourself as being unworthy and deserving of God’s wrath, at least that seems to be the approach when it comes to brainwashing. Once their self-esteem has reached a low point, they are more acceptable to having their brains "hijacked" (believe this, or else?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanokh
It's funny how you quote Scriptures like "Father forgive them, for the know not what they do" when they come in handy to make your point, but when you are confronted with Scriptures that oppose your views, you are quick to start questioning/denying the Divine inspiration and truthfulness of Scripture.
Like I said, I pray the Lord will reveal this truth to you, that He is not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. For now it seems your self-righteousness is very much in the way to accept and receive Gods truth, but the Lord could reach Saul and turn him into Paul aswell, so with Him nothing is impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
The genuine or true word of god must be separated from the chaff of fallible, human ideologies that clutter the core message of the Scriptures (i.e., the false penal substitution theory, that of eternal damnation, an underworld of pain and suffering, etc.), which were contrived from the imaginations of men and various cultural mythologies. You might choose to follow these false teachings under the guise of grace, but I do not. Men were called to be accountable, not to pass the buck. And as you noted with Luke 5:31-32, those that are whole are not in need of a physician, rather he called those who are sick and missed the mark to repentance. So, when are you going to drop the foolishness that has been taught in the Churches. Or, are you not yet able to distinguish the differences?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanokh
That which you call "Foolishness that has been taught in the Churches", I call the Biblical teaching of salvation. I was reading Matthew 18 this morning and couldn't help but think of you and this topic. It was Jesus Christ that taught about the fires of hell, and it was He that came to save that which was lost. Both of which you like to deny as far as I know, you think you are not lost, and you think you won't go to hell as the punishment for your sin.
Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
It is not the chaff of fallible human ideologies, it is the Scripture themselves that teach our fallenness and our need for a Savior. The only way you are going to escape judgment and hell is if you are to be found in Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures, and yes the Scriptures are very offensive to self-righteousness!
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
I know you promote that of fearmongering (eternal damnation), but I have never been held in slavery to the fear of death, nor do I have any intention of being held in bondage to it, now. Read what I posted, until you comprehend that the Scriptures are syncretistic in nature. For we have not been separated from that which brought everything into existence, except within the minds of religious men.
The genuine or true word of god must be separated from the chaff of fallible, human ideologies that clutter the core message of the Scriptures (i.e., the false penal substitution theory, that of eternal damnation, an underworld of pain and suffering, etc.), which were contrived from the imaginations of men and various cultural mythologies. You might choose to follow these false teachings under the guise of grace, but I do not. Men were called to be accountable, not to pass the buck. And as you noted with Luke 5:31-32, those that are whole are not in need of a physician, rather he called those who are sick and missed the mark to repentance. So, when are you going to drop the foolishness that has been taught in the Churches? Or, are you not yet able to distinguish the differences?
To distinguish the differences they would need to have a standard (Holy Spirit) against which to test truth from falsity and a clear delineation of the characteristics of that standard. They claim the Holy Spirit as a standard but have no clear understanding of what that means and simply spout platitudes. They also need to believe Jesus that there is a need to test the Spirit of whatever is claimed to be from God or Jesus using His revelations and unambiguous demonstration. They do neither! Despite all their protestations, they follow a book of words "written in ink" and NOT the Comforter (Holy Spirit) hwo abides with us as a guide to what God has "written in our hearts."
I know you promote that of fearmongering (eternal damnation), but I have never been held in slavery to the fear of death, nor do I have any intention of being held in bondage to it, now. Read what I posted, until you comprehend that the Scriptures are syncretistic in nature. For we have not been separated from that which brought everything into existence, except within the minds of religious men.
You know it is not fearmongering, hell is the reality the Scriptures describe as a place of punishment for the devil, demons and all unbelievers. When you see a building on fire, and you know the people inside are asleep, wouldn't you go and do anything to wake them up and get them out of there? That's the loving thing to do for your neighbour, if you see he is in danger, you warn him. And what I am saying is your soul is in terrible danger of perishing, you might not realise it, but I am trying to wake you up to the fact the Scriptures are not joking, they are not mythologies or human inventions, but Divinely inspired truth God has revealed to us.
Luke 16v22-24 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
I wouldnt want you, or anyone else, to end up there like the rich man did.
You know it is not fearmongering, hell is the reality the Scriptures describe as a place of punishment for the devil, demons and all unbelievers. When you see a building on fire, and you know the people inside are asleep, wouldn't you go and do anything to wake them up and get them out of there? That's the loving thing to do for your neighbour, if you see he is in danger, you warn him. And what I am saying is your soul is in terrible danger of perishing, you might not realise it, but I am trying to wake you up to the fact the Scriptures are not joking, they are not mythologies or human inventions, but Divinely inspired truth God has revealed to us.
Luke 16v22-24 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
I wouldnt want you, or anyone else, to end up there like the rich man did.
And I would not want you or anyone to end up in a heaven as taught and described by the evangelical church..
It's funny how you quote Scriptures like "Father forgive them, for the know not what they do" when they come in handy to make your point, but when you are confronted with Scriptures that oppose your views, you are quick to start questioning/denying the Divine inspiration and truthfulness of Scripture.
Like I said, I pray the Lord will reveal this truth to you, that He is not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. For now it seems your self-righteousness is very much in the way to accept and receive Gods truth, but the Lord could reach Saul and turn him into Paul aswell, so with Him nothing is impossible.
I also pray...I sincerely pray that those who teach an ANGRY, VENGEFUL, BIGOTED god are right..
I also pray that those who cling to and teach a JEALOUS, IMMATURE, and IMPATIENT god are correct.
I also pray that those who demand others BELIEVE like them, TALK like them and HATE like them are right
I PRAY THAT THE EVANGELICAL VIEW OF HEAVEN IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE
Just as I pray that my view / interpretation of an ALL LOVING, MERCIFUL, AND JUST god are not true just so the evangelicals can stand before their vision of god, all smug and righteous..
BECAUSE I REFUSE TO BE IN THAT VERSION OF HEAVEN UNDER ANY AND ALL CIRCUMSTANCES..
I would rather be WRONG and wiped out of existence, than stand before the evangelical god of FEAR, VENGEANCE, and HATE.
I know you promote that of fearmongering (eternal damnation), but I have never been held in slavery to the fear of death, nor do I have any intention of being held in bondage to it, now. Read what I posted, until you comprehend that the Scriptures are syncretistic in nature. For we have not been separated from that which brought everything into existence, except within the minds of religious men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanokh
You know it is not fearmongering, hell is the reality the Scriptures describe as a place of punishment for the devil, demons and all unbelievers. When you see a building on fire, and you know the people inside are asleep, wouldn't you go and do anything to wake them up and get them out of there? That's the loving thing to do for your neighbour, if you see he is in danger, you warn him. And what I am saying is your soul is in terrible danger of perishing, you might not realise it, but I am trying to wake you up to the fact the Scriptures are not joking, they are not mythologies or human inventions, but Divinely inspired truth God has revealed to us.
Luke 16v22-24 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
I wouldn't want you, or anyone else, to end up there like the rich man did.
Love has no boundaries, it does not aspire to control; and it is not oppressive.
You know it is not fearmongering, hell is the reality the Scriptures describe as a place of punishment for the devil, demons and all unbelievers. When you see a building on fire, and you know the people inside are asleep, wouldn't you go and do anything to wake them up and get them out of there? That's the loving thing to do for your neighbour, if you see he is in danger, you warn him. And what I am saying is your soul is in terrible danger of perishing, you might not realise it, but I am trying to wake you up to the fact the Scriptures are not joking, they are not mythologies or human inventions, but Divinely inspired truth God has revealed to us.
Luke 16v22-24 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
I wouldn't want you, or anyone else, to end up there like the rich man did.
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