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Again, not a thread on whether a God exists, plenty of those around, thanks.
THIS is the only reason an ex Christian friend is no longer a believer in God at all...
nicest man I have known for 29 years is now an atheist for decades.
I know the Bible is a bloody book.
I expect tons of Bible quotes will be quoted and quoted and placed in
Quote:
quote boxes
to be scrolled down again and again, over and over...read 'em, still see no logic...even
when blood is replaced with the representation of life.
We are a speck on a speck in a galaxy that is a speck...our hearts, souls, minds, spirits are not specks...but limitless and boundless...
and is what the Creator is interested in ...
why would an Infinite Being of Love want sweet, little lambs to be killed.*
This is a reason for so much rejection of Christianity...then, the 'baby thrown out with the bathwater effect', turns into atheism, period.
* Always wondered what is done with the dead animal? Tossed or eaten?
If eaten...where is the sacrifice, exactly...thank you.
Again, not a thread on whether a God exists, plenty of those around, thanks.
THIS is the only reason an ex Christian friend is no longer a believer in God at all...
nicest man I have known for 29 years is now an atheist for decades.
I know the Bible is a bloody book.
I expect tons of Bible quotes will be quoted and quoted and placed in to be scrolled down again and again, over and over...read 'em, still see no logic...even
when blood is replaced with the representation of life.
We are a speck on a speck in a galaxy that is a speck...our hearts, souls, minds, spirits are not specks...but limitless and boundless...
and is what the Creator is interested in ...
why would an Infinite Being of Love want sweet, little lambs to be killed.*
This is a reason for so much rejection of Christianity...then, the 'baby thrown out with the bathwater effect', turns into atheism, period.
* Always wondered what is done with the dead animal? Tossed or eaten?
If eaten...where is the sacrifice, exactly...thank you.
Yes, Miss Hepburn the Bible is a bloody book. I think the idea of a sacrifice to God goes back to the Cain and Abel story, when Abel's offering of the purest of his flock received the blessing of God and Abel's somewhat lesser gift of his harvest from the earth was rejected. The Bible doesn't say what reason the offerings were made, since the point of the story was to illustrate Cain's reason to kill his brother. That act could have also been Cain's vain attempt to satisfy God with a blood sacrifice of his own, which backfired. The idea of a need for a sacrifice in my opinion is more of a man-made tradition than a commandment from God. When the Israelites made a sacrifice it usually was connected to one of their festivals that commemorate certain events in their history, such as Passover and other events in which God had delivered them from bondage, or performed other miracles on their behalf. Thing is, these festivals normally were intended to share the harvest with those that were less fortunate: the elderly, the widows, the poor. The original idea of tithing. So, yes the animals were eaten as part of those festivals. This was a commandment from God, to feed the less fortunate. The idea of sacrifice to remove sin itself is the man-made part.
Again, not a thread on whether a God exists, plenty of those around, thanks.
THIS is the only reason an ex Christian friend is no longer a believer in God at all...
nicest man I have known for 29 years is now an atheist for decades.
I know the Bible is a bloody book.
I expect tons of Bible quotes will be quoted and quoted and placed in to be scrolled down again and again, over and over...read 'em, still see no logic...even
when blood is replaced with the representation of life.
We are a speck on a speck in a galaxy that is a speck...our hearts, souls, minds, spirits are not specks...but limitless and boundless...
and is what the Creator is interested in ...
why would an Infinite Being of Love want sweet, little lambs to be killed.*
This is a reason for so much rejection of Christianity...then, the 'baby thrown out with the bathwater effect', turns into atheism, period.
* Always wondered what is done with the dead animal? Tossed or eaten?
If eaten...where is the sacrifice, exactly...thank you.
Why does it have to be logical according to the dictates of the carnal mind, in the first place? I know you know His Spirit. Hasn't He had you do things that were totally illogical and only after you did them did you see the reasoning behind them? I have.
The bottom line is, He is G-d and we are not. The idea of sacrifice and priesthood began in Genesis because it was always in His heart, and everything He ever intended to do is in Genesis 1 and 2. Adam was the first High Priest of G-d, which is why his sons knew to do sacrifices.
There is no remission for sins without the shedding of blood. Why? Because to attain the life blood of a creature means it's dead, and the flesh of us must die, which is what it symbolizes. David said he would not give the Lord that which cost him nothing. Paul said make of yourselves a living sacrifice and consider yourselves dead. All of these statements point to the fact that our flesh must die, we must die to self so that He can live.
Man is in bondage to the fear of death (dying to self) all of his life. When Jesus told them the manner in which He should die, many left Him that same hour. People will always run from it, but it's the Holy Ghost's job to drag us to the cross. Some may go kicking and screaming, but all will go one way or another, not because He hates us, but because He wants us cleansed of the stains of sin so that we can dwell with Him forever, and the blood washes us clean. Peace
Oh, came across this, I did not know this...fascinating, for the topic:
Quote:
...since the destruction of the temple in AD 70, Orthodox Judaism has tended to regard
the Old Testament sacrifices as unnecessary.
In favor of this point of view, Rabbi David Rosen writes,
“Judaism does not accept the idea of vicarious atonement.
We can only atone for our own sins and are responsible for our own actions.”
I realize it is a Jewish stance.
Quote:
Why does it have to be logical according to the dictates
of the carnal mind, in the first place?
Where? Or are you saying you would like it?
I truly thought the rabbi's name would be sufficient ...google
Shedding of blood....it's there somewhere.
If I run across it again I will place it here, tho.
...since the destruction of the temple in AD 70, Orthodox Judaism has tended to regard
the Old Testament sacrifices as unnecessary.
In favor of this point of view, Rabbi David Rosen writes,
“Judaism does not accept the idea of vicarious atonement.
We can only atone for our own sins and are responsible for our own actions.”
I realize it is a Jewish stance.
Yes, those "jots and tittles" seem to have "passed" from the Law since the days of Jesus.
Again, not a thread on whether a God exists, plenty of those around, thanks.
THIS is the only reason an ex Christian friend is no longer a believer in God at all...
nicest man I have known for 29 years is now an atheist for decades.
I know the Bible is a bloody book.
I expect tons of Bible quotes will be quoted and quoted and placed in to be scrolled down again and again, over and over...read 'em, still see no logic...even
when blood is replaced with the representation of life.
We are a speck on a speck in a galaxy that is a speck...our hearts, souls, minds, spirits are not specks...but limitless and boundless...
and is what the Creator is interested in ...
why would an Infinite Being of Love want sweet, little lambs to be killed.*
This is a reason for so much rejection of Christianity...then, the 'baby thrown out with the bathwater effect', turns into atheism, period.
* Always wondered what is done with the dead animal? Tossed or eaten?
If eaten...where is the sacrifice, exactly...thank you.
Understand that God gave them what they chose, it is not what he chose for them. The law is a marriage contract and they came up to get married, but when Moses came down, they had chosen the work of their own hands, they were committing adultery where they were about to marry a God.
They were about to marry and consummate a marriage with a God where their bodies would have given birth to angelic men.
The marriage, the marriage contract, the consummation and Israel would have been born again, their bodies would have birthed righteous sons where evil imaginations would have been taken away.
Now they committed adultery and because they chose the works of their own hands and built their own God, God gave them what they chose.
Since they committed adultery and did not consummate to be reborn as sons of God, he gave them an impossible law to try and birth a righteous son themselves.
The fact that it is impossible for an animal to birth a spiritual being, they could never ever do it.
What was given was impossible to keep because it was just impossible for them to birth sons of God WITHOUT GOD, and they are the ones who chose to do this by their own hand.
So Moses goes back to the mountain and he comes down with the design of a temple made from human anatomy and that of a woman. Moses brings down a design for a uterus to put behind a veil with no door to let them try to produce a son of God themselves, but the law made this impossible because man simply is not God.
The entire reason for the law is to show mercy because it convicts you of your sins and the sins of your children from jump street and you have to give yourself a pass and them. God said he never wanted a million sacrifices because it wasn't what he had planned for them, it is what they chose by their own hands when they built another God and committed adultery.
God just says,'' Here, try as you may, try and keep this law and if you can, maybe you can birth a righteous son.''
But it is impossible from the very beginning and everyone should know that it is impossible, try as man may, he cannot produce a righteous son like God was fixing to give them at that mountain.
So the entire design of the temple is only showing priests bringing their seed up to a veil with no door to get their seed into that ark of the covenant and none of them could until a true virgin came.
Jesus was not born of the fallen spirit of Adam, and this was the first time a person could walk in the law to be seeded in the earth to become a first born son of many to follow.
God had finally consummated the marriage contract because Jesus was the only pure virgin who came walking in the law perfectly, and now God would break through that veil and impregnate that temple which is the Earth.
The Israelites committed adultery and so as any lover would do, he gave them up to let them try and raise a righteous son, but all were born fallen as Adam and so what they chose was impossible from the very beginning and all it does is teach mercy, because everyone shown know they have broken the law.
Finally after all that time, God consummated a betrothal, and Jesus became the first born of many sons after thousands of years of men trying by their own hand.
This body is female in that it is a house for the male spirit, Jesus came in the flesh as a pure house, a pure temple, a pure bride to the spirit of God.
I'm not convinced it was God that slew the animal in Genesis 3 for a covering for nakedness, despite what the Bible/Moses says. It didn't have anything to do with the payment for the disobedience (I.e.Pain, toil and death) which is born by us all, ....except that there is a Sabbath rest for those in Christ, but that's another subject. Once that first animal got it, probably because Adam was p155ed off, then the blood lust kicked in, and rest as they say.... My understanding of Sinai is that God wanted to be Israel's king but they preferred not, so he gave them what they wanted - the sacrificial / blame something else system. And let's face it, Moses did need to find some sort of palatable consistency between the writing of Genesis and the events forthwith Sinai, or he'd have looked like someone who couldn't put a decent story together.
One must remember that God was looking for Adam in the garden and calling out for him - He wanted restitution, right there and then, but man was hiding.
It is as plain as day to me, how the narrative unfolded.
As for the thread title and the 'doctrine of salvation', I'm sure I've said it a number of times, but it's worth saying again, to save someone is something you DO for or to them - that can never trump the fact that they ARE. That is why salvation is a weaker concept than I AM. By definition. All man needed to do, and still needs to do is come out of hiding, and heed Father's call.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 05-22-2017 at 02:34 AM..
I'm not convinced it was God that slew the animal in Genesis 3 for a covering for nakedness, despite what the Bible/Moses says. It didn't have anything to do with the payment for the disobedience (I.e.Pain, toil and death) which is born by us all, ....except that there is a Sabbath rest for those in Christ, but that's another subject. Once that first animal got it, probably because Adam was p155ed off, then the blood lust kicked in, and rest as they say.... My understanding of Sinai is that God wanted to be Israel's king but they preferred not, so he gave them what they wanted - the sacrificial / blame something else system. And let's face it, Moses did need to find some sort of palatable consistency between the writing of Genesis and the events forthwith Sinai, or he'd have looked like someone who couldn't put a decent story together.
One must remember that God was looking for Adam in the garden and calling out for him - He wanted restitution, right there and then, but man was hiding.
It is as plain as day to me, how the narrative unfolded.
It is important to note that Moses never meant for the creation story and the story of Adam and Eve to be taken literal, he was no dummy. In the 24 hours between Adam and Eve has to be centuries, Adam could not have possibly achieved all he had achieved in 24 hours.
He tilled the garden and had harvests until God looked down on him and saw that he need a mate. You can't till and harvest in 24 hours, and you certainly couldn't name all the species of birds in ten years much less everything that lived.
It is a spiritual story about the Earth and the moon and God made a covenant with his people according to the earth and the moon, and the sun.
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