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The New Testament gives its own definition of faith:
Quote:
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
Hebrews 11:1
I also think it means trust. Those of us who are Jesus followers trust our Lord and follow His lead in interacting with those around us. In other words, we do not condemn the lost as lost, nor do we praise churchgoing brethren without seeing faith in action, as another poster indicated, because faith in action shows trust.
Well faith in general can apply to anything, such as you list. However Faith in Biblical terms refers to acting on our belief in God, as He wishes, not just claiming to know Him, but do nothing more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
No belief is that you can drive down the road, Faith is actually driving on it.
So you're saying it makes sense to say "I have faith this chair will hold me" when I sit down or "I have faith my brakes will work as I stop my car?" This just seems peculiar to me. We never talk like that in the real world.
As I said to the above poster, justification for our beliefs seems sufficient to explain why we take actions on beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Faith is not believing, it's knowing.
So if I know I am currently typing on the City Data forum, I have faith I am typing on the City Data forum?
So you're saying it makes sense to say "I have faith this chair will hold me" when I sit down or "I have faith my brakes will work as I stop my car?" This just seems peculiar to me. We never talk like that in the real world.
As I said to the above poster, justification for our beliefs seems sufficient to explain why we take actions on beliefs.
So if I know I am currently typing on the City Data forum, I have faith I am typing on the City Data forum?
If my daughter is to be home at mid-night.
I don't believe she will - I know she will.
I was a Christian for nearly twenty years, and I routinely used the word "faith" just like everyone else. But I never actually thought about what the difference is between faith and belief. What do you think it is?
Personally, I think faith is simply a belief that is not entirely sensitive to the evidence. Consider the following:
It can't simply be that "faith" refers to situations where we have belief but don't have knowledge. I believe things that I don't know all the time, and I simply call that "belief."
It can't simply be that "faith" refers to beliefs about things that can't be seen. I have beliefs about oxygen, chemistry, nuclear forces, etc. that I wouldn't describe as faith.
It can't simply be that "faith" refers to beliefs that exist in situations that could go "either way." In nearly every other scenario, I just call these beliefs "beliefs".
Just to be clear, "belief" simply means something I hold to be true. I believe that I am typing on the City Data forum right now, and I believe my wife thinks I'm good-looking. Anything we hold to be true, whether justified or not, is a belief. If you hold the tenets of Christianity to be true, why do you call it a matter of faith?
The only explanation that seems plausible to me is that "faith" refers to beliefs that we arrive at through alternative epistemological routes. In other words, we don't arrive at faith simply by analyzing the evidence, as we do in most cases of belief. If that is true, why is faith a good thing? Shouldn't we aim for ordinary belief?
The Greek word which is translated as 'believe' is pisteuo. The Greek word which is translated as 'faith' is pistis. Both pisteuo and pistis are derived from the word peitho which means to persuade or be persuaded.
The two sentences, 'I believe in you,' and 'I have faith in you,' are saying the same thing.
The Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (BDAG) defines Pisteuo (believe) and Pisteuo (faith), as follows.
Pisteuo (believe):
1.) To consider something to be true and therefore worthy of one's trust.
2.) To entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, believe (in), trust.
3.) entrust
4.) be confident about.
5.) Think/consider (possible).
Pistis (faith):
1.) That which evokes trust and faith.
2.) State of believing on the basis of the reliability of the one trusted, trust, confidence, faith.
3.) That which is believed, body of faith/ belief/ teaching.
Basically then, at least with regard to how it is used in the Bible, to believe in or on Jesus is to have faith in Him.
Note also that pistis/faith is also used in the sense of the body of faith as in the Christian faith/ Christianity.
If I were to say 'My belief is that the chair will hold me,' that is the same as saying 'I have faith that the chair will hold me.
On the other hand, if I were to say that my belief is that string theory is correct, I'm not sure that it could properly be substituted with 'I have faith that string theory is correct'.
There are probably instances then where it would be more appropriate to use one word instead of the other, but as far as the terms 'believing in/on Jesus' and 'having faith in Jesus' goes, there really is no difference. If you believe on Christ/ have faith in Christ, you are trusting in Him, placing your confidence in Him. On the other hand, having a belief, or believing that Jesus exists is not the same as believing in/on Him/ having faith in Him.
Oh yes. I noticed that you used the example, "I have faith my brakes will work as I stop my car" as sounding peculiar to you. But I find it appropriate. If I've checked my brakes and know that they work properly, then I have every reason to have faith, to be confident, to trust that my brakes will work when I go to stop my truck.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-28-2017 at 10:44 PM..
The Greek word which is translated as 'believe' is pisteuo. The Greek word which is translated as 'faith' is pistis. Both pisteuo and pistis are derived from the word peitho which means to persuade or be persuaded.
The two sentences, 'I believe in you,' and 'I have faith in you,' are saying the same thing.
The Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (BDAG) defines Pisteuo (believe) and Pisteuo (faith), as follows.
Pisteuo (believe):
1.) To consider something to be true and therefore worthy of one's trust.
2.) To entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, believe (in), trust.
3.) entrust
4.) be confident about.
5.) Think/consider (possible).
Pistis (faith):
1.) That which evokes trust and faith.
2.) State of believing on the basis of the reliability of the one trusted, trust, confidence, faith.
3.) That which is believed, body of faith/ belief/ teaching.
Basically then, at least with regard to how it is used in the Bible, to believe in or on Jesus is to have faith in Him.
Note also that pistis/faith is also used in the sense of the body of faith as in the Christian faith/ Christianity.
If I were to say 'My belief is that the chair will hold me,' that is the same as saying 'I have faith that the chair will hold me.
On the other hand, if I were to say that my belief is that string theory is correct, I'm not sure that it could properly be substituted with 'I have faith that string theory is correct'.
There are probably instances then where it would be more appropriate to use one word instead of the other, but as far as the terms 'believing in/on Jesus' and 'having faith in Jesus' goes, there really is no difference. If you believe on Christ/ have faith in Christ, you are trusting in Him, placing your confidence in Him. On the other hand, having a belief, or believing that Jesus exists is not the same as believing in/on Him/ having faith in Him.
Oh yes. I noticed that you used the example, "I have faith my brakes will work as I stop my car" as sounding peculiar to you. But I find it appropriate. If I've checked my brakes and know that they work properly, then I have every reason to have faith, to be confident, to trust that my brakes will work when I go to stop my truck.
Maybe we should make a distinction between the following two types of statements:
I believe in X (or I have faith in X)
I believe that X (or I have faith that X)
In this thread, I'm more concerned with believe-that statements than believe-in statements. Obviously, I recognize the place of statements like "I have faith that you'll do the right thing." That sort of statement is not a proposition about whether something or someone exists; it is simply an expression of confidence that that thing or person will do the right thing. But in the context of religion, "faith" isn't only used to refer to confidence. It is used to express belief-that. Faith is often cited for why a person believes in god, not just as an explanation for how a person has confidence that god will do some specific thing.
Do you think the following belief-that statements make sense when the word "faith" is used?
I have faith that I am typing on the City Data forum.
I have faith that I am in my home state right now.
I have faith that mammals give live birth.
My intuition is that these statements make no sense. If that's the case, then why is "faith" used for belief-that statements rather than simply belief-in statements? Most Christians think the concept of faith is relevant to their belief in the existence of god, not just their belief that god will act in a certain way. As such, we should expect faith-that statements to make more sense than they do.
Edit to add: The third definition of pistis is the definition I am taking issue with: 3.) That which is believed . That definition is suggesting that faith can refer to belief-that. As such, we should expect statements like "I have faith that I am typing on the City Data forum right now" to make sense, but they don't.
Ah, well, "belief" is an intellectual position on a truth statement. "Faith" is an intellectual and emotional commitment TO that statement.
I am pretty sure I am just as intellectually committed to the statement "I believe I am typing on the City Data forum right now" as any Christian is committed to the statement "Jesus is the son of god."
I am not sure that emotion is relevant here. If a Christian feels no emotion about the tenets of Christianity, do they not have faith?
I am pretty sure I am just as intellectually committed to the statement "I believe I am typing on the City Data forum right now" as any Christian is committed to the statement "Jesus is the son of god."
I am not sure that emotion is relevant here. If a Christian feels no emotion about the tenets of Christianity, do they not have faith?
So a person can believe the right things and do the right things, but if they don't have the right feelings, they aren't a Christian? I guess those with low emotional affect personality disorders are doomed for all of eternity?
Edit to add: As I think more about your view, it seems like you are supporting the point I made in my original post: faith is just a belief that isn't sensitive to the evidence. If we are emotionally committed to a certain proposition, we are committed to believing it even if the evidence available to us changes. The belief, then, isn't sensitive to the evidence. It is supported by our feelings.
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