Religion can't save our soul... (Mormon, scriptures, sin, history)
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and but it is just as dangerous to run religiously after
"spirituality " .. all while they religiously burning "the contract of salvation " in Bible and religiously condemning ", religious speech" aka "fundamentalism" and all biblical truth ... because it is used by the "Religious" and ... drum roll ....." NOT the LOVING "...
what is actually dangerous is assuming there is only ONE truth and that you have that ONE and ONLY truth.
[quote=zthatzmanz28;49706544]unfortunately it rarely ever is...[/quote
sadly, yes BUT I would submit to you that most EVERY "ism" or "ology" past, present, or future (Christianity, Islam---which makes absolutely identical claims to be the "true" faith---Communism, Capitalism, collectivism, individualism, Democracy, Oligarchy, Anarchy, tribes and nation states (from ancient Israel to our own beloved U.S. of A.), etc. and TEDIOUS etc.) has some kind of serious blood on their individual and collective hands, all are "idols" with feet of clay. IMHO in all too many cases the fault, the blame, the "sin" can just as easily be laid at the feet of every INDIVIDUAL (even me and you as scary as that thought might be) who is a part of such societal physical, metaphysical, religious or secular construct or belief system---and being "social animals" most of us are in some manner, shape, or form.
as somebody in Shakespeare once observed, "the fault is not in our stars (or in our politics or theology)... BUT IN OURSELVES." OR as that wise 20th century social commentator "Pogo" said in his comic strip, "we have met the enemy and HE IS US!!!"
one may call the bad things we see in others (or even in ourselves when we look honesty in the mirror) anti-social, ignorance, greed, lack of charity or empathy, bad karma, or even "sin" (original or otherwise) but sad to say it appears to lurk in most all of us (certainly in me all too often and just maybe even you every once in a great while) but it's likely there indeed and it's probably a great hindrance to our moral, ethical, even spiritual growth if we try to ignore it or hide that "dark side" of our common humanity.
perhaps for the umpteenth time, we might all meditate on the parable of the "righteous" Pharisee and the "sinner" Publican---if we indeed think that we have found perfection and enlightenment in ourselves but lack charity, tolerance, AND humility toward those (possibly) benighted and foolish "sinners" (yes, even those who persist in practicing some kind of religion) who do not believe as we do then what real good is that perfection and enlightenment since we then are acting no better than anybody else----setting ourselves up as "unjust judges" as some religious Guy way back when once said?
as said several times before in other threads at other times, instead of being insightful and wise thinkers and sages we are ALL at time much more likely to be like the "blind men and the elephant"---touching/experiencing a PART of the great and loving ONENESS most all of us want to experience and be part of and not fully knowing and understanding even the part we touch.
knowing at least that much could and hopefully should make us all a bit more humble and a lot more loving---especially to those who "see that (part of the) elephant differently.
in the peace of Christ who said, "you shall KNOW the truth and the truth shall set you FREE"---may we all seek the truth and may the truth truly set us free to be understanding, forgiving, and loving of all including the others who with sincerity and faith also seek that truth in their own way---MAYBE that may be at least a part of what SALVATION is.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 10-03-2017 at 10:22 AM..
what is actually dangerous is assuming there is only ONE truth and that you have that ONE and ONLY truth.
There is only ONE way, ONE truth and ONE life ... obviously something that those who reject such are the ones who actually make up the citizenry of BIGOTS and HATERS
or as St. Paul says, "our BLESSED hope" (Titus 2:13).
IMHO, "religion" (however we define or experience it: organized or otherwise, corporately or individually, traditional or not) is simply the means, the vehicle by which one can find and hopefully embrace and be embraced by the ultimate transcedent Divine SOURCE of all that is good and loving in ourselves and all creation for all time
once fully embraced by and fully embracing He in "whom we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17:28) we can truly find and experience (and perhaps just as importantly SHARE) "the peace that transcends understanding" (Phil. 4:7) and then we are truly "saved".
religion can be and is much more than just "massive shrines and hypnotic ritual, (or)... (seemingly) fearful dogmas and (apparently) proud election but ultimately in the "childlike and trustful communion of the (all too often) baffled but trusting soul with a (loving) and forgiving God".
in the peace of Christ.
oops maybe you lost me there at that first paragraph......
oops maybe you lost me there at that first paragraph......
in this case, I am referring to "religion" in the very BROADEST sense which is IMHO is a means to experience and connect with the "higher power", "ultimate reality", "primal source"---which most Christians generally associate with an all powerful, all loving "God" (in Christ through the Holy Spirit). others with different beliefs may give different names and different attributes---but hopefully all Faiths Christian or otherwise would accept that their various and sundry beliefs, dogmas, rituals, and actions are all ultimately about making (or trying to make) that connection with and knowing, loving, serving, worshipping that great....(you fill in the blank depending on your particular belief---or lack of belief---system).
OTOH, I would respectfully and humbly suggest that especially in the Christian religion achieving "salvation" is vastly more than ONLY saying "I believe" to any kind of confession of faith or list of beliefs, saying prayers, or going to church or any other ritual or action of that nature (Matt. 7: 15-23 seems to refer to this) but additionally really putting those beliefs into practice in a "living faith" of love of, service to, and forgiveness of others (aka "bearing good fruits" and "doing the will of My Father" mentioned in Matthew) even as the faith we have confessed with the mouth and believed with the heart has informed and convicted us that God has loved and forgiven us.
sorry, if my words are not clear enough for you but for better or worse that's my take on it.
in the peace of Christ.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 10-03-2017 at 12:02 PM..
you lost me here..... "higher power", "ultimate reality", "primal source"-- that connection with and knowing, loving, serving, worshipping that great....(you fill in the blank depending on your particular belief---or lack of belief system).
you can hope that . but it won't work out that way .
his sheep know his voice..and they will follow. but not all God's are him or have his voice. good luck.
you lost me here..... "higher power", "ultimate reality", "primal source"-- that connection with and knowing, loving, serving, worshipping that great....(you fill in the blank depending on your particular belief---or lack of belief system).
you can hope that . but it won't work out that way .
his sheep know his voice..and they will follow. but not all God's are him or have his voice. good luck.
AGAIN, I am talking about "religion" in the BROAD sense (think taking a class in "comparative religions" for example) that covers many different beliefs and faiths NOT simply the Christian religion (which I assume we BOTH share and sincerely believe is the "true" and "best" way to salvation). however, at this point in the discussion think whether you or I believe that other religions are in any manner "false" or "misguided" is IMHO irrelevant for this thread---which actually seems to be that ANY religion (including Christianity) is at least potentially some kind of serious barrier or hindrance to finding/knowing the Truth by whatever name you might want to give---including "higher power" or "primal source" OR as a Christian you (and I) strive to know, worship, and obey as "THE God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Alpha and Omega, Who is, Who was, and Who is to come" forever and ever, Amen
it would be so nice if folks would accept that "religion" (in the BROAD sense) is indeed NOT designed and practiced as an INTENTIONAL barrier to knowing God (or whatever name others might want to use) but instead actually every once in a while may be a genuine help in that goal. IF folks would accept that premise and possibility (and so far many do not) that would be a real miracle and blessing.
discussions, arguments, and just plain fights at this point as to whose religion is really right (and especially which form of Christianity is the true one and which are actually apostates and heretics, fools and knaves) are just that---essentially clanging gongs and cymbals as I think Paul cautioned against and rarely lead anyone to understanding or love of God and neighbor.
again, sorry if through my inabilities or inadequacies in form and content, I am somehow confusing you or upsetting you because as (hopefully) a fellow Christian I wish to do neither.
in the peace of Christ.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 10-03-2017 at 01:35 PM..
that only FEEEEELs dangerous to you because you are fearful of there being a real God.
na, we are fearful of people that take a belief statement about such things as the only real truth.
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) but it's likely there indeed and it's probably a great hindrance to our moral, ethical, even spiritual growth if we try to ignore it or hide that "dark side" of our common humanity.
