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Old 10-13-2017, 10:18 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,426,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Yes. The fact that we need a savior who bled and died for us is an offense to the proud. I understand it. It takes a humble man to admit he's not perfect and sinless.
A humble man to admit it and a brave man to change. Most can't.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,314 posts, read 26,518,342 times
Reputation: 16410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko Ainasoja View Post
Therefore there is nothing better than faith, truth, chastity, fasting and charity which will wash away our sins. And which you wish not to do to your self, do not do that to others. Course yourself to the Kingdom of God, and you will receive the crown, which is in the Christ Jesus our Lord.
Can you post a direct link to, or name the source from where you got this quote? The Muratorian Canon which is dated to c. AD. 175 mentions a letter forged under the name of Paul to the Alexandrians.
There are also in circulation one to the Laodiceans, and another to the Alexandrians, forged under the name of Paul, and addressed against the heresy of Marcion; and there are also several others which cannot be received into the Catholic Church, for it is not suitable for gall to be mingled with honey. [Bolded mine]

Muratorian Canon (Roberts-Donaldson Translation)
But there appears to be no existing copy of the forged letter.

Encylopaedia Britannica online says the forged 'Letter of Paul to the Alexandrians' is lost.
''Among the apocryphal letters are: a 2nd-century Epistula Apostolorum (“Epistle of the Apostles”; actually apocalyptic and antiheretical), the Letter of Barnabas, a lost Letter of Paul to the Alexandrians (said to have been forged by followers of Marcion), the late-2nd-century letter called “III Corinthians” (part of the Acts of Paul and composed largely out of the genuine letters of Paul), along with a letter from the Corinthians to Paul, and a Coptic version of a letter from Peter to Philip. There is also a famous forgery purporting to have been written by Jesus to Abgar, king of Edessa (noted in Eusebius, Church History I. 13).'' [Bolded mine]

https://www.britannica.com/topic/bib...ypha#ref598206
And Wikipedia has the following entry.
''Nothing is known for certain of a pseudepigraphical Epistle to the Alexandrians — purportedly by Paul — that is mentioned in the Muratorian fragment, one of the earliest lists of the canonical texts of the New Testament; the anonymous author of the Muratorian canon considered spurious the letters claiming to have Paul as author, and that claim to be written to the Laodiceans and this one to the Alexandrians, which are specifically said to be: "forged in Paul's name to [further] the heresy of Marcion." '' [Bolded mine]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistl...e_Alexandrians
You've attributed your quote to a lost letter about which nothing is known for certain except that it is said to be a forgery. When I entered your quote ''Therefore there is nothing better than faith, truth, chastity, fasting and charity which will wash away our sins. And which you wish not to do to your self, do not do that to others. Course yourself to the Kingdom of God, and you will receive the crown, which is in the Christ Jesus our Lord.'' into different search engines all that comes up is other forums where you have posted the quote.

I'm therefore curious to know precisely from where you got the quote.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:42 AM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
9,006 posts, read 4,701,782 times
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So, then, he is posting a forgery of a forgery?
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:08 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,071,169 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Yes. The fact that we need a savior who bled and died for us is an offense to the proud. I understand it. It takes a humble man to admit he's not perfect and sinless.
What is sin?...
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:10 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,071,169 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
That's just what they do. Call them the resident entertainment.
Or maybe we are just honestly trying to educate you and help you see the error in your thinking process...
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:30 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,071,169 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
And AGAIN, you come here to insult us...
I come here to correct your misunderstanding of Judaism and G-d in general...


Quote:
I do understand Judaism
Obviously you do not...


Quote:
...and you don't recognize Satan because you have dispensed with the understanding that God gave you about Satan.
What exactly is this understanding that you seem to believe G-d gave us about Satan, use the Torah to tell me, please...


Quote:
Because the Jews MISSED The Messiah and the New Covenant.

Where is this New Covenant spoken of in the Torah?...


Quote:
If Christians are lawless, the the Torah is LAW,
not "guidance," and not "teachings."
Do you abide in Torah?...


Quote:
And yet we are not "lawless," we just have
a new covenant that you FAIL to understand.

Do you follow G-d's law?...If not, then you are lawless...

I understand the New Covenant very well, I believe what G-d spoke about it through the prophets...And I also know what Christians think it is...


Quote:
If Christians blame Satan for their sins, it is because
they do not understand their own Scriptures.
What is your understanding of Satan?...


Quote:
If Jews study the Torah every day to understand it,
then Christians study the Bible every day to understand it.
No, Christians study the New Testament and when they attempt to talk about the Christian edited Old Testament, they screw it all up because they rarely study the OT in depth.


Quote:
But Jews don't study the Torah every day.
Yes, they do...The majority of Jews are more educated in the Torah than Christians are and Christians do not even know their New Testament all that well...

Quote:
Many don't study it at all
And you've taken a poll on this?...

Quote:
and you, pretending otherwise, are dishonest.
No...I am being quite honest...So honest, in fact, that you'd be shocked if you knew my history and background and experience and education...
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:41 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,049,405 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Or maybe we are just honestly trying to educate you and help you see the error in your thinking process...
Haven't considered that before. Wonder why.....
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,071,169 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Haven't considered that before. Wonder why.....
Maybe your arrogance has blinded you?...
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:48 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,049,405 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Maybe your arrogance has blinded you?...
I'm the one saying that I'm not good enough and that I need a savior....that doesn't come from arrogance.
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:21 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,071,169 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I'm the one saying that I'm not good enough and that I need a savior....that doesn't come from arrogance.
It is arrogance when you say that Jews don't know their own Scriptures and that the Christian edited version of the OT is correct and the Hebrew Scriptures are wrong...Who convinced you that you needed a savior?...HaShem gave us the Torah and if we make the effort to follow it, we will improve ourselves as human beings...We are all born with a Yetzer HaRa and a Yetzer HaTov along with free will to decide which one we will follow daily...If we follow the Yetzer HaRa daily, we become worse human beings, if we follow the Yetzer HaTov daily, we become better human beings...It is not that difficult...Even King David said that G-d's Torah was Truth and Righteousness, and didn't your Apostle Paul encourage you to practice daily that Righteousness?...
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