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I believe the bible is fiction. I believe Jehovah is a cartoon character. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks it is a real god thing.
Are you in the Christianity forum to convince us of that or are you here for us to convert you?
Personally, I stay away from the atheist forum since I have no interest in it. My guess is atheists come here for some reason----my guess is to have us change their minds. HMMMMM
Are you in the Christianity forum to convince us of that or are you here for us to convert you?
Personally, I stay away from the atheist forum since I have no interest in it. My guess is atheists come here for some reason----my guess is to have us change their minds. HMMMMM
If you removed your head from your navel for a moment, you might actually learn something from others' posts. I've been here for 7 years and have said on many occasions I am not an atheist (not that there's anything wrong...).
I have no wish to change anyone's mind. I have no problem with 80% of Christians.
I am here to reprove and correct fundies, of which you are one.
Jesus claimed to be God. How can you call him a good man if he lied about that?
Does anyone have the name of the stenographer who followed Jesus around and recorded (possibly in Hebrew shorthand) every word that Jesus uttered? It's only right that s/he be acknowledged.
Does anyone have the name of the stenographer who followed Jesus around and recorded (possibly in Hebrew shorthand) every word that Jesus uttered? It's only right that s/he be acknowledged.
No kidding. Especially since he was "quoted" by many different anonymous authors who never heard him speak.
Does anyone have the name of the stenographer who followed Jesus around and recorded (possibly in Hebrew shorthand) every word that Jesus uttered? It's only right that s/he be acknowledged.
By that argument, we cannot know if TroutDude is correct that Jesus was a man with good ideas.
"Mormons Building Bridges" is not sponsored or endorsed by the LDS Church. The Church's PR department had absolutely nothing to do with this group. It is simply a group of Mormons who are LGBT allies. Period.
out of curiosity, how do they avoid excommunication, censure from the president, or charges of being apostate? not a personal attack, an honest question.
on this, they are going against a church that is very clear on the matter. i should add that im unsympathetic to the church in question.
out of curiosity, how do they avoid excommunication, censure from the president, or charges of being apostate? not a personal attack, an honest question.
on this, they are going against a church that is very clear on the matter. i should add that im unsympathetic to the church in question.
Higher ups in any organization are aware of shifting cultural views and prevailing opinions.
They are especially aware of bad publicity.
Turning a blind eye to a one-day act of semi-defiance by a small sub-segment of their greater society seems the wisest course of action to me.
I don't believe the god of the OT ever existed. It is obviously a construct of primitive men - a war god like Zeus or Odin. Except, unlike Zeus or Odin, it has no redeeming features. It is vicious, murderous, narcissistic and very stupid.
I can't say the same with certainty about Jesus. It's not hard to believe that the Jesus story is based on a real person, or persons. But I don't for a moment believe he worked miracles, was the son of any god, or was a god himself. Legends evolve from myths, like Robin Hood or King Arthur.
Jesus was a man who pissed off the establishment and taught good lessons about forgiveness, understanding, patience, acceptance and love. I can admire a person like that. But I would no more worship him than I would Einstein, da Vinci, Shakespeare or Hawking.
Christianity's biggest mistake was force-fitting the Jesus story into the OT in order to make the prophecies appear true. Big boo-boo. Makes the whole story a farce. They should have left the Tanakh to the Jews and had the Jesus story stand alone.
But nobody asked me.
Jesus can be found all the way back in Genesis. That was written hundreds of years ago because the gospel writers supposely made up the Jesus story.
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Genesis 3:15
I don't believe the god of the OT ever existed. It is obviously a construct of primitive men - a war god like Zeus or Odin. Except, unlike Zeus or Odin, it has no redeeming features. It is vicious, murderous, narcissistic and very stupid.
I can't say the same with certainty about Jesus. It's not hard to believe that the Jesus story is based on a real person, or persons. But I don't for a moment believe he worked miracles, was the son of any god, or was a god himself. Legends evolve from myths, like Robin Hood or King Arthur.
Jesus was a man who pissed off the establishment and taught good lessons about forgiveness, understanding, patience, acceptance and love. I can admire a person like that. But I would no more worship him than I would Einstein, da Vinci, Shakespeare or Hawking.
Christianity's biggest mistake was force-fitting the Jesus story into the OT in order to make the prophecies appear true. Big boo-boo. Makes the whole story a farce. They should have left the Tanakh to the Jews and had the Jesus story stand alone.
But nobody asked me.
Yet Jesus WAS a Jew and early Christians were primarily Jewish and attempting to cling to old traditions as well as develop new viewpoints. It was natural to see Jesus in "prophecy" which was a large part of Jewish ideology.
Now I do not believe for one second that Jesus was "foretold" in the minds of the authors of the OT. The people that do that are those that equate Jesus and the Bible as being one and the same thing. Most of the so-called "Christians" of today want Jesus stuck in the Bible so that they can control Him. If the Word of God (Jesus) is in a book, they can manipulate and control and distance themselves from Him.
Christians of the Jeffie ilk are terrified of trusting the average person with the Spirit of God. They don't really believe the Holy Spirit can actually lead people into all truth. They doubt that His sheep can really hear the voice of the Good Shepherd. So they always seek to put a mediator and a mouthpiece between themselves and God. In Janelle's case, it is the Pope--except when he doesn't live up to being the mouthpiece she wants. In jeff's case, it is the Bible--except when it demands we live like Jesus and put aside our prejudices and bigotry.
But the Bible is not the center of the Christian faith. Jesus is. Either our Christian faith is Christ-centered, meaning we try to live like Jesus, think like Jesus, love like Jesus, and forgive like Jesus----or it is not worthy of being called "Christianity."
jeff's flat Bible approach to scripture leaves Jesus and His teaching at the mercy of Moses, Elijah, other OT prophets, and even Paul. It results in Jesus' commands to love our enemy becoming obscured by passages where God commanded violence against pagan nations.; His commands to care for the poor are overridden by verses that say "if a man will not work then he shall not eat;" Jesus' prohibition against hierarchical leadership are tempered by verses that call for believers to "submit to the authority of the bishop.
A theologian by the name of Richard Rohr wrote this (and I copied it down):
We worshipped Jesus instead of following Him on the same path---We made Jesus into a mere religion instead of a journey toward union with God and everything else. This shift made us into a religion of "belonging and believing" instead of a religion of transformation.
I am still quite orthodox in many ways. I do believe Jesus is fully God and fully man. I, more or less, affirm the Trinity. I believe the Bible is useful for teaching reproof, correction and training in righteousness. Yet the Bible is not a book measuring how we relate to the Bible, it is about how we relate to Jesus who is the focus of the Bible.
The difference between false Christianity and Jesus followers is the confusion that exists about Jesus and His place in our lives. Should we be following Jesus' commands or are we only expected to believe in Him and ask Him to forgive us of our sins so we can go to Heaven when we die?
False Christianity cry out for a world that is more "biblical." They want a nation that returns to more "biblical" values. They hold out the Bible as the cure for everything that is wrong in the world today. They put their hope in the Holy Scriptures. But the Bible doesn't save us. The Bible doesn't renew or refresh or restore us. It can't do any of those things because it is a book.
Yet rather than cry out for a more biblical world, perhaps we should be crying out for a more Christ-like one. For me, a Christ-like world is far more preferable than a Biblical world.
You remain closer to God in your "rejection" of Jesus as the Son of God, than do jeffie and janelle, with their religious idolatry.
We're gonna win ya over, Trout. I'm betting on Jesus to do that!!!
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