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your right Jews do not consider him evil. to them he is doing God's work...
it seems to me that this would make God's standards for conduct very low indeed.. I but I do not see that low a conduct from my God in any form .. only from Satan/s lot .. SO I agree with Jesus and the apostles .. when they commanded Satan to get behind them !
Luk 10:17
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Mat 8:16
When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
Mar 1:32
And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.
men possessed by the devil have the low standards of conduct, but Not God.. which proves Jesus right and Jewish traditions wrong on the subject of Jesus and the devil.
Do what you want is Satan's yoke? For me it was more like: you're not good enough, you'll never be good enough, you're irreparably flawed, you have to die so decent people can have happiness, you don't deserve anything good, you don't matter, you have no worth, stupid woman...
OK technically that's what I was told Jesus yolk was and I know many here will agree especially in light of the fact that I am now leaning toward there really isn't a sentient creator.
Then I got this which I thought to be Jesus (at the time) which I guess some will say is Satan: I would never harm you, refuse anyone (including yourself) that tries to tell you different. You can count on me no matter what; that can never change, you don't have to be anything other than you are, you matter, there's nothing wrong with you besides a tiny bit of stupidity but that's part of your charm.
So even if you think the second one is Satan He/he said nothing about "doing" anything. Of course, this could have all been my doing. Picking up signals from a mother as a child vs as the mother of a child. Seriously, don't call Him a loving parent if you don't want people figuring out what that means.
Richard is a Jew. The majority of Jews do not think of Satan as evil. They think of him as an agent of God who tempts us to find out for God what choices WE will make---good or evil. No blaming the "Devil" for what we ourselves choose to do.
With my recent exposure to Jewish ideas (reformed) by my son marrying a Jewish woman, I have had a little more personal exposure to some of their ideas.
The idea of Satan as God's agent, who can do nothing without God's permission (see the book of Job), I agree one hundred percent. The good vs evil ideas have been inserted into Christianity by pagan Greek beliefs that infected early Jewish converts to Christianity.
Quote:
It is very important to understand the difference between the Jewish understanding of Satan and the Christian understanding of Satan.
First of all, in doing a quick search of the Hebrew and Christian bibles, we find a remarkable difference. In the Jewish bible (Tanakh), we find three separate references to Satan (the book of Job is considered one reference because it is one continuous story). However, in the New Testament, a book 1/3 the size of the Hebrew bible, we find 35 references to Satan. If we add the word “devil” to the search, we get an additional 32 references in the New Testament. In total, a search using different euphemisms for Satan leaves us with well over a hundred references. So, the first thing we need to understand is that in Judaism, HaSatan is not a main focus of our relationship with HaShem (G-d). Whereas, Christianity almost seems preoccupied with him. ----------------- If we take a look at Isaiah 45:7, we see that Hashem is the creator of everything, as the text says, “bringing forth light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil, I am G-d who does all these things.” In the Jewish bible, everything is under the jurisdiction of G-d and under His power – all forces, even evil forces. Everything comes from G-d, He created everything, good and evil. That being the case, Satan is not a rival of G-d, he is a messenger of G-d and unable to do anything outside of G-d’s will.
In contrast to Christian literature, where Satan is understood to be an evil force, the enemy of G-d, in Jewish literature, he is seen as a blessing to the Jewish people. Why? Let’s consider for a moment what Satan means. As mentioned before, the word not only means an adversary, but a stumbling block or an obstacle. What exactly is an obstacle? It is something which is put in our path requiring us to overcome it. Obstacles in this life give us opportunities to stretch our muscles and to grow.
This more ancient understanding of Satan helps us understand ourselves better and makes demands on us to stay focused on God's total integration into the lives of His people. He doesn't desire to hurt them, but rather desires to see for Himself if our frailties can be overcome by our love of Him.
In this case, the Hebrew understanding of Satan doesn't allow us to make excuses to God for our willingness to be seduced by things which don't honor God.
Richard has a better, more ancient, and more practical understanding of Satan whom too many Christians use as a scapegoat for their own sins.
seriously? one has only to read many of the OPs previous posts to know where they stand.
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