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Seth comes across as a cynic, appearing to have thrown the baby out with the bath water. I think there is middle ground for faith in the matters of being born from above, and learning what the Father is like. Everything else is negotiable after those 2 ideas, for me; ....who said what and what does it mean is only narrative (story telling) that is available for analysis and then incorporation or discarding. Perhaps many don't have faith because it really doesn't matter at the place they're at on the journey.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 11-23-2018 at 06:19 AM..
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Seth comes across as a cynic, appearing to have thrown the baby out with the bath water. I think there is middle ground for faith in the matters of being born from above, and learning what the Father is like. Everything else is negotiable after those 2 ideas, for me; ....who said what and what does it mean is only narrative (story telling) that is available for analysis and then incorporation or discarding. Perhaps many don't have faith because it really doesn't matter at the place they're at on the journey.
Sounds like a reasonable stance. And I agree, Seth does sound very cynical and angry. I don't begrudge him those feelings, but I hope for his sake he moves beyond them.
May I ask what "being born from above" means to you? (Not wanting to argue it with you, at all. I'm just genuinely interested in understanding more where you're coming from.)
Sounds like a reasonable stance. And I agree, Seth does sound very cynical and angry. I don't begrudge him those feelings, but I hope for his sake he moves beyond them.
May I ask what "being born from above" means to you? (Not wanting to argue it with you, at all. I'm just genuinely interested in understanding more where you're coming from.)
A higher way of perceiving things, instead of this earthly court of religion that has been established by men.
Sounds like a reasonable stance. And I agree, Seth does sound very cynical and angry. I don't begrudge him those feelings, but I hope for his sake he moves beyond them.
May I ask what "being born from above" means to you? (Not wanting to argue it with you, at all. I'm just genuinely interested in understanding more where you're coming from.)
Born from above is the literal Hebrew for born again, with respect to the Christian tradition. It has equivalents in other spiritual belief systems, though I'm not read up in those areas. It basically means one has had a revelation of knowing one is spirit first and foremost. I suppose the reason I'm not read up, is because after that initial revelation the next most important thing is knowing the Father.
The revelation of spirit is accepted by faith, and that faith is given. I think those are non negotiable for me, and another is that the belief in spirit and having faith is not to be held against those who don't profess to have them.
Born from above is the literal Hebrew for born again, with respect to the Christian tradition. It has equivalents in other spiritual belief systems, though I'm not read up in those areas. It basically means one has had a revelation of knowing one is spirit first and foremost. I suppose the reason I'm not read up, is because after that initial revelation the next most important thing is knowing the Father.
The revelation of spirit is accepted by faith, and that faith is given. I think those are non negotiable for me, and another is that the belief in spirit and having faith is not to be held against those who don't profess to have them.
Thanks Age. As I said, I have no intention of arguing with you, but even if I did, I wouldn't find anything in what you say to argue about. I couldn't agree more, really … a willingness to accept that we are spirit (a non-materialist view) allows us to move to the more important understanding that the "Father"/Source of our spirit is love. I do think, though, that there are plenty of materialists/atheists who live, experientially, as people who are "born again" in love. So while intellectual assent may be one aspect of "knowing", it must not be the most important one. Just my thoughts.
Thanks Age. As I said, I have no intention of arguing with you, but even if I did, I wouldn't find anything in what you say to argue about. I couldn't agree more, really … a willingness to accept that we are spirit (a non-materialist view) allows us to move to the more important understanding that the "Father"/Source of our spirit is love. I do think, though, that there are plenty of materialists/atheists who live, experientially, as people who are "born again" in love. So while intellectual assent may be one aspect of "knowing", it must not be the most important one. Just my thoughts.
Nice thought that - being born again in love. It is the essence and meaning of family and getting the chance to be a Mum or Dad in the flesh - what a more perfect example of something approaching the expression of unconditional love could there be, and without higher spiritual or intellectual assent. 😀
A higher way of perceiving things, instead of this earthly court of religion that has been established by men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
That's a beautiful way of describing it. Thanks, Jer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age-enduring
Born from above is the literal Hebrew for born again, with respect to the Christian tradition. It has equivalents in other spiritual belief systems, though I'm not read up in those areas. It basically means one has had a revelation of knowing one is spirit first and foremost. I suppose the reason I'm not read up, is because after that initial revelation the next most important thing is knowing the Father.
The revelation of spirit is accepted by faith, and that faith is given.
Given BY the Father as in "born of God" (a conception by God, NOT a birth).
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I couldn't agree more, really … a willingness to accept that we are spirit (a non-materialist view) allows us to move to the more important understanding that the "Father"/Source of our spirit is love. I do think, though, that there are plenty of materialists/atheists who live, experientially, as people who are "born again" in love. So while intellectual assent may be one aspect of "knowing", it must not be the most important one. Just my thoughts.
