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When Paul in Ephesians 2:1 said to his readers that they had been dead in their trespasses and sins, they were very much physically alive, but they had been dead in another sense. They had been spiritually dead which is a state of being spiritually separated from God even while physically alive.
Though those who reject God's provision of eternal salvation will exist forever in the lake of fire in a state of spiritual separation from God they will continue to exist physically having been resurrected prior to the great white throne judgment. According to the text of Revelation 20:10 the beast and the false prophet (Revelation 19:20-20:10), even after having already been in the lake of fire for 1000 years will continue to be tormented forever and ever. To be tormented one must be in a state of existence.
Spiritual death is different than physical death. Those who reject him are spiritually dead now. Once they physically die they are gone. The idea of eternal consciousness is a pagan Greek belief that entered the church later by the weeds.
Spiritual death is different than physical death. Those who reject him are spiritually dead now.
Yes. We agree on that.
Quote:
Once they physically die they are gone. The idea of eternal consciousness is a pagan Greek belief that entered the church later by the weeds.
We do not agree on that. If you have a high view of the Bible then you should believe it when it says that the beast and the false prophet, speaking of a future event, even after being in the lake of fire for a thousand years are still alive and tormented.
Aside from that, if once you die you are gone, there would have been no need in the Mosaic law to prohibit attempts to contact the dead as king Saul did. And in that case, God Himself apparently stepped in and caused the dead prophet Samuel to come up from Sheol. The woman who with the aid of a demon pretended to bring up the dead was shocked when Samuel actually did come up.
Then of course there is Revelation chapter 7 in which John in the vision given to him saw multitudes in heaven.
If you can't accept those then we'll have to remain in disagreement.
Spiritual death is different than physical death. Those who reject him are spiritually dead now. Once they physically die they are gone. The idea of eternal consciousness is a pagan Greek belief that entered the church later by the weeds.
and so you don't believe God is a trinity? and just because greeks beleived in three gods don't have anyhting to do with my God......
OR is it that you dont Believe that man is created in God's own image and thus is like him in form and type.
we can not be made to become and "restored" and be like him as he really is , if we are not in way (way more ways than just one ) have to be like him..
It serves as a thought experiment, causing people who believe in a literal Hell to determine their motivations for being a Christian. Are they in it for themselves, are they Christians because they have "the love for others, according to Christ's love" in their hearts, or for some other reason.
BTW, "if"s are typically used in hypotheticals, i.e. What will happen to me IF I leave work early? Will I make it to my destination quicker IF I take this shortcut?
Dear Mike: You are in luck! On this very thread is Jerwade who knows what aionios and aidios means and a whole lot more.
In our ongoing effort to keep you up to snuff (without consulting the non- Canon) let us now continue our sources (yes Mike there are more to come)>>>>>>
The New Testament has ONLY one word which can truthfully be translated as ETERNAL. This is the Greek word Aidios which is used only twice: For since the creation of the world GOD'S invisible qualities - His eternal (aidios) power and divine nature - have been clearly seen.
However, if you read it carefully, you will see a difference between Jude 1:6 and Jude 1:7, whereas, they do not use the same Greek WORD. The fire speaks to that of an age, a period of time, not something that is without a beginning or an end. Nobody would use two different words two describe the same thing, unless - they were speaking English, as there is a difference in their application. Any divergence or variance is worthy of attention and significant - if you’re not playing the ignorant card.
The fire goes out once it has served its purpose.
It’s not a reference to that which is Eternal (aidios), having no beginning or end.
The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion) or eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) beyond this life is sadly mistaken.
It’s a limited duration of aionion (age-abiding) kalasin (chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter.
Dear Mike:
I do trust Canon Farrar has been some help for you. I also trust Dr. Jenkins has also provided a vehicle of illumination. Perhaps we will look at the man of God G. Campbell Morgan next.
Insult me. That always makes you right and it will surely make me agree with you.
Dear Hball: that wascally wabbit (Mike) must change direction and quickly!
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