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The intent of St Paul writing to the “Ephesians” was about the consummation of the “ages” not about the individual destiny of particular individual people who are like the grass or atoms or cells which make up bodies
I believe that Christianity has been deceived by the philosophy and doctrines of the “Protestant” nations that make the Holy Scriptures about any individual destiny
You and birdy arguing over whether their is eternal torment for INDIVIDUALS or universal reconciliation for INDIVIDUALS has the same defect by elevating the individual instead of looking to Christ and His Church
Meer, I'm not a bible person anymore, so I don't follow a lot of the threads that discuss doctrine based on a view of the bible as the word of God. But, if you're saying that salvation is about humanity as a whole, I'm with you on that. I tend toward a belief that we are all on a journey together, and we each play a part in moving us forward. Not because any of us are saving others or even ourselves, but because, somehow, we're all threads in the tapestry that is humanity. I don't know, but I don't think that there's some predestined destination for us. I do think/hope that perhaps humanity is expanding, together, and that the God who is love is the catalyst behind that, which means that wherever humanity is on the path, and wherever we go, the journey is worthwhile.
I was quoting Jesus. If he did not come to condemn the world then why are you ?.
I wasn't condemning anyone you foolish person, I was merely quoting the words as recorded in Revelation 21: The words of the First and Last, the one who sits on the throne, who reveals to all who have the ability to comprehend that which they read, the ultimate fate that awaits the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Total and ever-lasting oblivion.
Why? Don't you believe God who said, "The soul that sins and enters death unrepentant, will die the ever-lasting death? Do you want people to think that they can do whatever they want to their fellow man and the God of Justice will turn a blind eye to their sins?
Probably, but where did the idea of condemnation come from? Is it an acquired or learnt behavior and attitude? Because it wasn't something that naturally flowed from me as a child? Although I may disagree with various beliefs, never have I condemned anyone, even as an adult. However, I have stood in the gap for those being oppressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
As was established earlier on this thread, Jer, you are a rare gem. Sincerely.
I can't really think back to a time when I was not someone who condemned, myself for sure, but others, too. Granted, I was raised in a religious home, but I know a lot of people who weren't who were/are equally condemning. I guess I'm not looking to blame anyone/anything for how that mindset comes about. I just want to be a part of making a change in my little corner of the world. I want people to know that God does NOT condemn them, so I sure as hell have no business doing it. And neither does anyone else.
I would never assume that you look to blame people in the here and now, but I do see your point.
And I would agree that God does NOT condemn anyone, as he is NOT holding sins against people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
I tend toward a belief that we are all on a journey together, and we each play a part in moving us forward. Not because any of us are saving others or even ourselves, but because, somehow, we're all threads in the tapestry that is humanity. I don't know, but I don't think that there's some predestined destination for us. I do think/hope that perhaps humanity is expanding, together, and that the God who is love is the catalyst behind that, which means that wherever humanity is on the path, and wherever we go, the journey is worthwhile.
I wasn't condemning anyone you foolish person, I was merely quoting the words as recorded in Revelation 21: The words of the First and Last, the one who sits on the throne, who reveals to all who have the ability to comprehend that which they read, the ultimate fate that awaits the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Total and ever-lasting oblivion.
Why? Don't you believe God who said, "The soul that sins and enters death unrepentant, will die the ever-lasting death? Do you want people to think that they can do whatever they want to their fellow man and the God of Justice will turn a blind eye to their sins?
Religious nonsense, nothing will be destroyed, rather a transformation will take place.
I would never assume that you look to blame people in the here and now, but I do see your point.
And I would agree that God does NOT condemn anyone, as he is NOT holding sins against people.
Then read post 642, and tell me who it is who condemns the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars, whose fate is to be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur, which is the second death?"
Meer, I'm not a bible person anymore, so I don't follow a lot of the threads that discuss doctrine based on a view of the bible as the word of God. But, if you're saying that salvation is about humanity as a whole, I'm with you on that. I tend toward a belief that we are all on a journey together, and we each play a part in moving us forward. Not because any of us are saving others or even ourselves, but because, somehow, we're all threads in the tapestry that is humanity. I don't know, but I don't think that there's some predestined destination for us. I do think/hope that perhaps humanity is expanding, together, and that the God who is love is the catalyst behind that, which means that wherever humanity is on the path, and wherever we go, the journey is worthwhile.
That’s exactly what I am saying
And I too think humanity is evolving
I believe we do have quite a few similarities in our views
Universalism can become a religious denomination to people but the essence of the Spirit is not about denominationalism
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory,
While I believe for society religious organisations are beneficial, just like governments are beneficial they can and are misused, I believe that for humanity as a whole the take away from the gospel is to not defend our religious beliefs over the urgings of the Spirit which is always this:- loving, peaceful, kind, humble, patient, etc
Do you think that God loves the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars? If you do, I would advise you to read Revelation 21: 8.
Do YOU think God loves the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars?. Or do you think they need become Christians "first" to be loved BY the one who we are told loves(loved) the world ?.
I wasn't condemning anyone you foolish person, I was merely quoting the words as recorded in Revelation 21: The words of the First and Last, the one who sits on the throne, who reveals to all who have the ability to comprehend that which they read, the ultimate fate that awaits the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Total and ever-lasting oblivion.
Why? Don't you believe God who said, "The soul that sins and enters death unrepentant, will die the ever-lasting death? Do you want people to think that they can do whatever they want to their fellow man and the God of Justice will turn a blind eye to their sins?
Why do you choose condemning bible verses that contradict not only the nature and character of God, but goes completely against the scripture that says that God loved the world, the same God who appeared in the man Christ Jesus not condemning the world. It is very foolish to assume God on the one hand loves the world and on the other hand hates it.
I believe we do have quite a few similarities in our views
Universalism can become a religious denomination to people but the essence of the Spirit is not about denominationalism
...
While I believe for society religious organisations are beneficial, just like governments are beneficial they can and are misused, I believe that for humanity as a whole the take away from the gospel is to not defend our religious beliefs over the urgings of the Spirit which is always this:- loving, peaceful, kind, humble, patient, etc
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