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If eventually, everyone enters into the kingdom, that is not a narrow path. That is a wide and broad path. Everyone enters in.
It's as narrow as Christ makes it. Not all enter at the same time. Each in their own order. They can enter one at a time if Christ so desires.
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As long as you preach that no one enters into the kingdom apart from faith in Christ (which means that if anyone does not believe in Christ, they will not enter into the kingdom), I am happy.
I would love to believe that everyone will enter in to the kingdom through faith in Christ. My itching ears gravitate towards such a doctrine; it would indeed be good news to me if I knew that everyone will come to faith in Christ.
We've given you ample scripture to support the tenets of UR. You're simply not ready to receive it. Most are not.
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As an evangelist, I do not have the luxury of believing that everyone will come to faith in Christ. I would simply retire from my occupation; understanding that what I do in the way of evangelism has no bearing on anything.
Of course it does. In the same way 2Co 5:20 does.
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God knows from the perspective of eternity whether all will come to Him or whether there are some who will enter into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46). Note that if the kjv is accurate, there are some who will enter into that. And if it isn't; and it ought to be translated "age-during", then we also have "age-during" life who believe in Christ according to John 3:16; which means that our life will end at the end of the age even as the punishment ends at the end of the age according to Matthew 25:46 in that theology.
Age-during is a relative period linked to it's object/subject, it's not a period marked by boundaries of time. Age-during in Christ is eternal/perpetual/everlasting, as is Christ. Age-during punishment/correction is relative to it's stated purpose. It will last as long as required/needed. It could last for what we might consider as being years or happen in the twinkling of an eye. Time itself is not the critical factor. Achieving it's stated purpose is.
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I do not know from my end (this side of eternity) beyond a shadow of a doubt that all will come to Him.
You should, scripture proclaims it.
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So I have decided that, even if I were to come to believe in the doctrine of Universal salvation, that I will preach eternal torments to my dying day; because that doctrine is an excellent motivation for people to come to the knowledge of the Lord and wisdom (see Job 28:28); and I would rather that most people come to faith in Christ sooner rather than later.
The scriptures proclaim that in the end, God will be all in all. You might as well start proclaiming it now. The scriptures do so.
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And also, it is written,
Heb 9:27, And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So, those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life on their day of judgment shall be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15) where they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Revelation 20:10, Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50); there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
And also, after you have passed on into the next life, it appears to me that it is saying that it is then too late to be able to receive Jesus as your Lord and Saviour;
You had every opportunity in life but now that you are dead, you are going to be judged and there is no more opportunity to avert judgment by receiving forgiveness of sins through appropriating what Jesus did for you on the Cross.
All these texts that you've cited have been discussed ad nauseam. No reason to do so again.
The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) without flesh inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15).
The Son, being God, is the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) dwelling in flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
That same Spirit was released to the Father (Luke 23:46) who could not VACATE ETERNITY when He descended to become a Man; because the nature of One who inhabits eternity is that He will dwell therein for ever; even from everlasting to everlasting.
God lived one eternal moment and then descended into time to take on an added nature of human flesh,
Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Again, Jesus releases His Spirit to the Father in Luke 23:46.
So, there are two Spirits who are in effect the same Spirit who exist side-by-side in eternity (see John 1:1, James 2:19).
The One titled "the Holy Ghost" has lived a human life and understands humanity in an experiential manner.
The One titled "Father" receives intercession from the Son and the Holy Ghost (through the saints) concerning those whom He calls His own.
I believe that the Son had His beginnings in the flesh in that He was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35, Romans 1:3, Isaiah 45:11).
When He ascended, He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) in the Person of the Holy Ghost; while the Person of the Son is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7) and is therefore finite in His nature of glorified humanity.
He exists in the nature of angels today (Matthew 22:30, Revelation 22:16); being a resurrected Man.
I believe that He also travelled back in time at His ascension and reigns as Lord from the beginning of time.
There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18).
Yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3).
And, Jesus is in fact the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).
I conclude that Jesus and the Father are the same Lord.
It is written in the creeds, that "the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Ghost is Lord; yet we are forbidden by Christian doctrine to say that there are three Lords."
Consider what I say.
Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
And is this description of the Trinity considered orthodoxy?
Of course not. No one believes this.
Again, as in your other posts, you really have no idea what you're speaking of. At this point I think you're purposely doing so.
I think that it ought to be a major point of doctrine among Universalists, in order to avoid confusion, that a person does not enter into heaven apart from faith in Jesus Christ.
Paul was never on the way to hell and destruction, he was and so is all chosen sinners, always a vessel of mercy Rom 9:23-24
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Paul as any other vessel of mercy, was born a sinner and lived like one !
Paul (soul) consisted of both flesh and spirit. The flesh is not a vessel of mercy. The flesh was crucified with Christ. Paul's hope was the final deliverance from the flesh, the "body of this death" (Rom 7:24-25) through Christ.
I think that it ought to be a major point of doctrine among Universalists, in order to avoid confusion, that a person does not enter into heaven apart from faith in Jesus Christ.
That is a doctrine of men and there is not a sentence of scripture that comes anywhere close to saying that. He is the Way to Father not a place up in the sky.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. The prodigal returned to the Father.
A question for you, is your faith in Jesus Christ doing what you cannot do ? If your answer is yes, then the only difference between you and your unbelieving brother is you know it and have joy and peace(there's joy and peace in believing), your brother doesn't.
If you would, compare what you believe vs orthodoxy and where the two part company. How are you defining orthodoxy?
I do not believe that what I am saying and orthodoxy part company.
I define orthodoxy by the Bible and the creeds.
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Originally Posted by pcamps
That is a doctrine of men and there is not a sentence of scripture that comes anywhere close to saying that. He is the Way to Father not a place up in the sky.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. The prodigal returned to the Father.
A question for you, is your faith in Jesus Christ doing what you cannot do ? If your answer is yes, then the only difference between you and your unbelieving brother is you know it and have joy and peace(there's joy and peace in believing), your brother doesn't.
Colossians 1:5 and 1 Peter 1:4 and Revelation 21:9-22:5 speak adequately of heaven from my perspective.
Paul (soul) consisted of both flesh and spirit. The flesh is not a vessel of mercy. The flesh was crucified with Christ. Paul's hope was the final deliverance from the flesh, the "body of this death" (Rom 7:24-25) through Christ.
When people are cast into the lake of fire, God is not going to at that time separate their flesh / body from their soul and their spirit. Their whole person is going in headlong.
Otherwise they are not being cast into the lake of fire; but only the husk that used to contain them is cast therein.
All these texts that you've cited have been discussed ad nauseam. No reason to do so again.
You have not been able to deal with the reality of them, however, as I have presented them here. You have not even addressed Hebrews 9:27 from what I can see in all of our conversations.
Neither have you been able to refute the reality of Revelation 20:10, Matthew 13:41-42, and Matthew 13:49-50 as they are told together.
A few more being Matthew 25:41 and Matthew 25:46.
Now, you may be able to deal with these verses individually, picking them apart; but you are unable to take all of the combined verses as a whole and refute their message as they speak together on the subject.
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