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Yeah so? What does that have to do with anything? I simply moved on to where I was headed, I just didn't know it. I've already said that Universalism was a stepping stone, not a stopping place. Like I said, I admire them but that does not mean I believe them any more than I do you. I like the presentation and the calm, reasonable route to bring others "into the fold".
Your way ain't the way.
My point is that clearly "their way" didn't work for you either since you're not "in the fold"; so what's the difference?
I'm here to have my beliefs challenged and to challenge the beliefs of others. I'm not here to beat around the bush or to appeal to your personal sensibilities. If it bothers you that much, no one is forcing you to interact with me.
Here below, God manifests chiefly His grace and goodness, His mildness and mercy, His patience and longanimity. Dominus expectantissimus indicator. True, even here below, God sometimes judges and punishes individuals as well as nations; but these temporal visitations always presuppose grace, and His justice tempered by mercy leads to the conversion, to the spiritual progress, and often to the salvation of souls. The trials which God sends are not designed "for the destruction, but for the correction and conversion" of men, and hence "it is a token of great goodness when sinners are not suffered to go on in their ways for a long time, but are presently punished" (2 Maccabees 6:12-13). Therefore, whether God is strict or lenient with us, we ought always to make use of "the acceptable time" (2 Corinthians 6:2) to work out our salvation.
The delay of Christ's return to judge mankind is but another manifestation of His infinite love. "The Lord delayeth not His promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance" (2 Peter 3:9). We cannot form a holier and more salutary idea of the task of Christianity than by conceiving it as the continued manifestation of God's mercy to men. Every day that dawns is a new grace, another proof of God's infinite forbearance. The centuries of time are the waiting of a Father Who is longing to see His children do penance and participate in His glory. God pours out His mercies lavishly upon the children of men, but the individual can avail himself of grace only to the day of his death, and the human race only until the Last Judgment. These are the immovable goalposts of His mercy, and beyond them justice alone shall reign.
My point is that clearly "their way" didn't work for you either since you're not "in the fold"; so what's the difference?
You are absolutely incorrect. I've told you this over and over but you refuse to accept it. My journey out of indoctrination was a slow one, and I had stops along the way, like Universalism, to help me figure out that what I had been taught was ALL wrong. The difference is you are here, what seems like constantly in this thread, simply to bash and harass. That's all your doing. I'm actually trying to help people.
Quote:
I'm here to have my beliefs challenged and to challenge the beliefs of others. I'm not here to beat around the bush or to appeal to your personal sensibilities. If it bothers you that much, no one is forcing you to interact with me.
Nope, you are quite obviously here to harass the Universalists, that's it. I AM challenging your beliefs so the fact that you say that just tells everyone reading this that you are dishonest.
Why do you care so much about what the Universalists are teaching? You don't act like a Christian so why should it bother you? They, on the other hand, DO act like professing Christians. I don't know why it is so difficult for you to see that you are the problem here.
I don't like you, that's true, but I have every right to respond to whoever I want, whenever I want, and in any manner I choose. If you don't like it, don't interact with me. I'm not going anywhere but you are certainly welcome to if it's getting too hot in here for you.
manifestation of His infinite love. "The Lord delayeth not His promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance" (2 Peter 3:9). We cannot form a holier and more salutary idea of the task of Christianity than by conceiving it as the continued manifestation of God's mercy to men. Every day that dawns is a new grace, another proof of God's infinite forbearance. The centuries of time are the waiting of a Father Who is longing to see His children do penance and participate in His glory. God pours out His mercies lavishly upon the children of men, but the individual can avail himself of grace only to the day of his death, and the human race only until the Last Judgment. These are the immovable goalposts of His mercy, and beyond them justice alone shall reign.
The love of God never ever fails to reach its objective! The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases: ever.
His reach for us is NOT limited to this mere 70 years, but extends far beyond the grave.
Our Father's will prevails. He exceeds mere desire for mankind to be saved, He wills it!
"God longs for everyone to embrace his life and return to the full knowledge of the truth. For God is one, and there is one Mediator between God and the sons of men—the true man, Jesus, the Anointed One. He gave himself as ransom-payment for everyone." ~TPT
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
"will have" =θέλω thélō =
1. Determined in purpose.
2. Resolved in purpose.
3. Have in His mind.
"We worship the awe-inspiring God with pure hearts. He longs for everyone to embrace his life and return to the full knowledge of the truth." ~TPT
Our universalist friends believe you will one day bow down to Jesus and admit He is Lord of all. Thoughts?
My thoughts are, and the Universalists here know it, is that I do not believe in a god and I'm ok with the fact that they do. Simple as that. I don't believe in Jesus but if they want to interpret the bible that way what does it matter? I'll tell you why it matters.
Someone who is struggling with their belief or lack thereof need to know that there is another alternative to mainstream Christianity, and it's a nicer, calmer, more effective way to bring people some peace and be able to breathe and think while they are on their journey. And it's completely biblical, just a different interpretation than yours. If someone's journey leads them to Universalism, then good for them.
If you respond to this post, how's about quoting my WHOLE post and addressing all of it.
He exceeds mere desire for mankind to be saved, He wills it!
This idea is not found anywhere in Scripture or the Christian Tradition.
God clearly wills for some to be damned. Judas is the prime example.
If Judas will one day be reconciled to God and live in eternal bliss in God's presence, then how could Jesus say that it would have been better for him had he never been born (Matthew 26:24)?
The delay of Christ's return to judge mankind is but another manifestation of His infinite love. "The Lord delayeth not His promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance" (2 Peter 3:9). We cannot form a holier and more salutary idea of the task of Christianity than by conceiving it as the continued manifestation of God's mercy to men. Every day that dawns is a new grace, another proof of God's infinite forbearance. The centuries of time are the waiting of a Father Who is longing to see His children do penance and participate in His glory. God pours out His mercies lavishly upon the children of men, but the individual can avail himself of grace only to the day of his death, and the human race only until the Last Judgment. These are the immovable goalposts of His mercy, and beyond them justice alone shall reign.
The Master of reconciliation will draw how many unto Himself?
ALL
Draw = helkuo =
Draw off in power.
Drag off in power.
Impel in power.
Helkuo is a strong word which means to tug, draw, or compel, and is found 6 times in the New Testament.
In each usage, whatever was drawn came; there is never a suggestion or hint that whatever was drawn was not accomplished.
Jesus said, And I, if I am lifted up, I will draw all men to Myself.
My thoughts are, and the Universalists here know it, is that I do not believe in a god and I'm ok with the fact that they do. Simple as that. I don't believe in Jesus but if they want to interpret the bible that way what does it matter? I'll tell you why it matters.
Someone who is struggling with their belief or lack thereof need to know that there is another alternative to mainstream Christianity, and it's a nicer, calmer, more effective way to bring people some peace and be able to breathe and think while they are on their journey. And it's completely biblical, just a different interpretation than yours. If someone's journey leads them to Universalism, then good for them.
If you respond to this post, how's about quoting my WHOLE post and addressing all of it.
You danced around my question, never addressing my point. The universalists (actually all Christians) believe you will bow down to Jesus and confess He is Lord.
"God, was in Christ reconciling the world, to Himself (2 Cor 5:19). These are they from whose hearts the prince of this world shall be cast out. Our Lord foresaw that after His passion and glorifying, great nations all over the world would be converted, in whom the devil was then, but from whose hearts, on their truly renouncing him, he would be cast out. But was he not cast out of the hearts of righteous men of old? Why is it, Now shall be cast out? Because that which once took place in a very few persons, was now to take place in whole nations...
What is this all that He draws, but that from which the devil is cast out? He does not say, All men, but, All things; for all men have not faith. He does not mean then all mankind, but the whole of a man, i.e. spirit, soul, and body; by which respectively we understand, and live, and are visible. Or, if all means all men, it means those who are predestined to salvation: or all kinds of men, all varieties of character, excepting in the article of sin."
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I was starting to like you a lot, and now you've hurt my feelings.