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It seems to be that most people who consider themselves Christian also find sex outside the bonds of marriage, fornication acceptable behavior for Christian people. And its not just young people. I've known seniors that went off to church regularly with the boyfriend or girlfriend they were shacking up with.
Even in my "conservative" denomination" parents seemed to have no problem with their children having sex with their bf/gf. I dont think they even brought it up.
Since many don't see abstinence highlighted in the Bible and Jesus' words to the level and the ways that the church tries to portray, there isn't a conviction against sexual activity between two consenting adults or teens. Then there's also the freedoms and liberties of the country, that give us rights to that. And it's not illegal.
Many no longer will accept and allow bossiness and bullying by the pulpit. Many are actually thinking for themselves for a change. It's less about "more acceptable", and more about people retaking charge of their minds.
Given enough time and reflection, people tend to start shaking off archaic principles from the religious/controlling folk. No damage is done to actual scripture or spirituality. It's a healthy improvement.
It's always been present. When I met with the minister from my childhood when planning to get married, we were forthright about having lived together for six years already. He was a wonderfully eccentric old man, a PhD and professor who had taught the New Testament and church history at New Brunswick Theological Seminary, and he informed us that in the early days of our country, couples had moved in together in commitment to each other while waiting for a circuit preacher to come around make their union public, and so that's what he saw us as doing. (He then went on to tell us how vital it was to follow a healthful diet throughout our lives, as he had recently corrected some issues of his own by changing his food choices. Unfortunately, we both disregarded that advice, but we got a kick out of meeting with a minister before marriage and ending up talking about the importance of regular salads.)
The biblical strictures against sex outside of marriage seem to be mostly cultural and having to do with the vanity of men desiring to put their stamp on their progenity without risk of claims to the contrary. As a matter of fact, there isn't much in there about older people having sex outside of marriage, because it really didn't matter to the authors setting down the rules of their society if there was no risk of pregnancy anyway. If one limits one's perception of God to the pages of a book composed by men in such a way that it works in their favor, sex outside of marriage might be a big deal.
Using the ability to reason with which we've been blessed, however, there doesn't appear to be any real reason that human sexual activity, provided engagement is with consent and not harm to any party, would be of concern to God any more than would be the decision to eat halibut or rice and beans for dinner. Personal choices that bring no harm to anyone else have no bearing on real morality or the well-being of the community overall.
the idea that sex outside of marriage is a sin is a modern concept
leviticus 18 lists the sexual sins none say sex before marriage
Unlawful Sexual Relations
18 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord.
6 “‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.
7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.
8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.
9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.
10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.
11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.
12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.
13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.
14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.
15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.
16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.
17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.
19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.
20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.
21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.
22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
It seems to be that most people who consider themselves Christian also find sex outside the bonds of marriage, fornication acceptable behavior for Christian people. And its not just young people. I've known seniors that went off to church regularly with the boyfriend or girlfriend they were shacking up with.
Even in my "conservative" denomination" parents seemed to have no problem with their children having sex with their bf/gf. I dont think they even brought it up.
The Bible, of course, condemns it. But as less and less churches preach the Bible, sex is kind of the sin no one talks about.
Why is this? My thoughts are that people today are less and less willing to submit to their church leaders. If they hear something they don't like, they just go to a different church. So they don't get told anymore. It's that way with other sins, as well. It goes beyond just sex. But that is perhaps one of the most visible, with the LGBTQPDQDLSLWIEG movement nowadays.
The Bible, of course, condemns it. But as less and less churches preach the Bible, sex is kind of the sin no one talks about.
Why is this? My thoughts are that people today are less and less willing to submit to their church leaders. If they hear something they don't like, they just go to a different church. So they don't get told anymore. It's that way with other sins, as well. It goes beyond just sex. But that is perhaps one of the most visible, with the LGBTQPDQDLSLWIEG movement nowadays.
Wait - what's all of this other stuff? I only know up to the first "Q" ?
Churches don't focus on sin and God's holiness anymore. It's about making this world better - and it's not going to get any better.
The Bible, of course, condemns it. But as less and less churches preach the Bible, sex is kind of the sin no one talks about.
The Bible speaks about sexual orgies (i.e., pornography), idol worship, and that of adultery.
But when it comes to the views of fundamentalists, it's all about condemning others.
Since many don't see abstinence highlighted in the Bible and Jesus' words to the level and the ways that the church tries to portray, there isn't a conviction against sexual activity between two consenting adults or teens. Then there's also the freedoms and liberties of the country, that give us rights to that. And it's not illegal.
Many no longer will accept and allow bossiness and bullying by the pulpit. Many are actually thinking for themselves for a change. It's less about "more acceptable", and more about people retaking charge of their minds.
Given enough time and reflection, people tend to start shaking off archaic principles from the religious/controlling folk. No damage is done to actual scripture or spirituality. It's a healthy improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
It's always been present. When I met with the minister from my childhood when planning to get married, we were forthright about having lived together for six years already. He was a wonderfully eccentric old man, a PhD and professor who had taught the New Testament and church history at New Brunswick Theological Seminary, and he informed us that in the early days of our country, couples had moved in together in commitment to each other while waiting for a circuit preacher to come around make their union public, and so that's what he saw us as doing. (He then went on to tell us how vital it was to follow a healthful diet throughout our lives, as he had recently corrected some issues of his own by changing his food choices. Unfortunately, we both disregarded that advice, but we got a kick out of meeting with a minister before marriage and ending up talking about the importance of regular salads.)
The biblical strictures against sex outside of marriage seem to be mostly cultural and having to do with the vanity of men desiring to put their stamp on their progenity without risk of claims to the contrary. As a matter of fact, there isn't much in there about older people having sex outside of marriage, because it really didn't matter to the authors setting down the rules of their society if there was no risk of pregnancy anyway. If one limits one's perception of God to the pages of a book composed by men in such a way that it works in their favor, sex outside of marriage might be a big deal.
Using the ability to reason with which we've been blessed, however, there doesn't appear to be any real reason that human sexual activity, provided engagement is with consent and not harm to any party, would be of concern to God any more than would be the decision to eat halibut or rice and beans for dinner. Personal choices that bring no harm to anyone else have no bearing on real morality or the well-being of the community overall.
It's always been present. When I met with the minister from my childhood when planning to get married, we were forthright about having lived together for six years already. He was a wonderfully eccentric old man, a PhD and professor who had taught the New Testament and church history at New Brunswick Theological Seminary, and he informed us that in the early days of our country, couples had moved in together in commitment to each other while waiting for a circuit preacher to come around make their union public, and so that's what he saw us as doing. (He then went on to tell us how vital it was to follow a healthful diet throughout our lives, as he had recently corrected some issues of his own by changing his food choices. Unfortunately, we both disregarded that advice, but we got a kick out of meeting with a minister before marriage and ending up talking about the importance of regular salads.)
The biblical strictures against sex outside of marriage seem to be mostly cultural and having to do with the vanity of men desiring to put their stamp on their progenity without risk of claims to the contrary. As a matter of fact, there isn't much in there about older people having sex outside of marriage, because it really didn't matter to the authors setting down the rules of their society if there was no risk of pregnancy anyway. If one limits one's perception of God to the pages of a book composed by men in such a way that it works in their favor, sex outside of marriage might be a big deal.
Using the ability to reason with which we've been blessed, however, there doesn't appear to be any real reason that human sexual activity, provided engagement is with consent and not harm to any party, would be of concern to God any more than would be the decision to eat halibut or rice and beans for dinner. Personal choices that bring no harm to anyone else have no bearing on real morality or the well-being of the community overall.
Interesting observations about your minister.
My daughter and son-in-law are as atheist as I am, yet they became good friends with a United Church (think liberal Methodist church in the USA) minister. They didn't want a religious ceremony, but they did want him to marry him. He agreed on one condition, that they take a six week pre-marriage course from him. He held a wonderful ceremony for them, which was full of references to the nature they revered, and the wonder of that nature, as opposed to any god or Christ reference.
They said it was the best thing they did, even though they had been living together for a number of years prior to that.
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Unfortunately, we both disregarded that advice, but we got a kick out of meeting with a minister before marriage and ending up talking about the importance of regular salads.)
