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[quote=Michael Way;61334268]This was addressed to unbelievers. To repent with regard to salvation means to have a change of mind regarding Jesus. You didn't believe in Jesus but then you heard the gospel and did believe. You repented. That verse has nothing to do with someone who already is a believer who sins and who simply needs to acknowledge the sin to be forgiven.
The same as above. The repentance is with regard to salvation.
Sure, but this is dealing with believers forgiving each other and is not referring to the believer who sins being forgiven by God once he simply acknowledges his sin or sins.
Yes, but this is addressing a church congregation which has lost its focus on Jesus, having left their first love. That church needs to regain its focus on Jesus.
This is true. The believer who continues to sin does invite divine discipline.
This is referring to national discipline on Israel if they do not turn away from sin, but it does not imply that a believer must never sin again or never commit the same sin again in order to be forgiven.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that each time a person commits the same sin God won't forgive him. Each time a person sins the moment he simply confesses or acknowledges the sin he is forgiven even though divine discipline may continue. But if divine discipline does continue after the believer confesses the sin, the discipline is for blessing. The believer who continually commits the same sin will be forgiven each time he confesses the sin, but because he keeps committing the same sin over and over he will not be advancing in his spiritual life as a believer.
Quote:
Ezekiel 18:32:
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
This is speaking of national discipline on Israel if they do not turn back to God.
Jesus here appears to be referring to the need to repent with regard to salvation. That is to go from unbelief to believe in him.
Whenever the word 'repent' is used it must be determined in what context it is being used. Is it referring to salvation, or to sin, or to dead works?
None of the verses you listed say that you must never sin again, or that you must never commit the same sin again in order to be forgiven. When Peter asked Jesus how many times he should forgive someone who sins against him, Jesus said
Matthew 18:22 Jesus says to him, "I say to you not up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!
Jesus wasn't setting an upper limit on how many times you can forgive someone but was essentially saying that no matter how many times a person sins against you, you should forgive him. If God expects that of us will he do less himself?
When you commit a sin as a believer, simply acknowledge the sin to God and move on with your spiritual life. You can never commit a sin for which Jesus did not already pay the penalty.
Mike, I agree with what you are saying here and to me an important distinction is between what pertains to the individual and what pertains to the collective and understanding the difference
Can you point to any passages that say that you must both confess and repent in order to be forgiven? And are those passages addressed to believers or unbelievers?
Rev 3:19-21 Christ is telling the church of Christ at Laodicea to repent in order to overcome being separated from Christ, 1:20 refers to lampstands being the congregations, so one can infer that if they don't repent, they are going to be blown out out as a church and therefore not saved because of ongoing sin which 1 John 3:9 says it is not possible for the child of God to continually practice sin.
Acts 8:22 is a great, ungetoverable verse for you. Simon is told to repent of his wickedness of desiring the miraculous gifts for fame and fortune that he may be forgiven. 8:13 He recently became a Christian with many other just several verses before, he heard the Gospel and was baptized like the others, he was saved but sinned and told to repent.
Now, it would be impossible to confess every sin, because we sometimes sin unknowingly. If our hearts are not harden then God forgives us
1 John 1:7 says "If " we walk in the light.....His blood cleanses us. That little word "if" implies repentance since only unrepentant people continues in sinful lifestyles. 2 Cor. 7:10 shows us that godly sorrow leads to repentance, and we can see how repentance leads to a reformation of life. If you change your mind, then you change your actions also. If a man repents of murdering people, does he still go out and continue to murder people? No! He stops and turns in the other direction.
Unless the church has sinned - which it probably has!! - repentance is between us and God. It's a one-on-one personal matter, and is better served being handled directly between each of us and God.
But as others has indicated, it's better to learn and change, than just give lip service and repent on the way to confession yet once again. Much of the church is dysfunctional and not about addressing / solving problems (to continue to have material for sermons?!?), so maybe that explains what we see going on.
On the contrary, some churches focus TOO MUCH on repentance. Constantly hammering into people the idea that they are nothing but worthless sinners is very negative, and it's harmful. It's NOT pride to allow yourself to have some sense of self-esteem, yet the traditional Bible churches seem hellbent on making people feel terrible about who they are. It's not healthy.
But it works for those churches, I guess, to keep people down and self-loathing and coming back for more, until they don't come back anymore and turn their backs on Christianity because they come to believe that's all there is to it.
In my church (Presbyterian), each Sunday during worship, we read a confession of our sin (a standard paragraph that is read every week) and then the minister announces that we are all forgiven. The message that I get both at worship services and in other church activities is that we’re forgiven.
Great, but the more I read the Bible, the more I doubt that we’re automatically forgiven (or forgiven if we confess our sins).
It seems like repentance is also a condition to being forgiven. See Matthew 18:15-17 and lots of other passages.
Shouldn’t churches focus on getting members to both confess their sins and repent from them? Mine doesn’t talk much about repentance but I think that it should.
Does your church talk a lot about the need to repent?
Thanks.
Repentence( the stopping of the doing of a sin) gets sin blotted out( Acts 3:19)
Too many blind guides telling those who practice sin you are saved. Is not truth. Jesus is clear at Matthew 7:21-22-- Those living now to do his Fathers will, get to enter his kingdom. And to those work iniquity( practice a sin) At judgement he will tell them-Get away from me, i must confess i never even knew you. And Jesus taught-Man does does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God. Then Jesus teaches at Matthew 10:22-- He who endures( living to do his Fathers will in a satan ruled system) will be saved. So the term--Will be saved-- shows none are saved until they endure until their end. Those teachers have 0 right telling another they are saved. They have never seen a single name written in Gods book of life. They cannot tell the future. They have no clue what those they tell are doing behind closed doors *****. They are the blind guides mentioned in the bible.
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