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There is definite everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46) that is meted out by the Lord to those who commit iniquity (Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50).
The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus while the common people heard Him gladly.
Which corresponds to educated Greek and Hebrew scholars of today; who are also inclined to reject Jesus...as opposed to those who read the Bible in their own language; which corresponds to the common people.
Personally, I do not believe that God is going to entrust His unadulterated message to those who are inclined to reject Him. He is going to give it to the common people.
For this reason, I believe that arguing about words is to the subverting of the hearers (see also 2 Timothy 2:14, 1 Timothy 6:4-5). What we read in common English is trustworthy and there is no need to go back to the original Greek and Hebrew.
And therefore, when it says, "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46, I believe it as I read it in the English.
And I also believe that scripture inteprets scripture (1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)); so that Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50 show us clearly what that everlasting punishment consists of in its description; that in it there is "wailing and gnashing of teeth."
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
That is just ignorant close-minded irrationality and wishful thinking that your preferred beliefs are true. You are in for quite an unpleasant surprise upon your death, JBF.
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
It is certainly not wishful thinking on my part. I could wish that it might be otherwise.
But the things that I believe, I believe, because they are proclaimed by holy scripture.
The things that you believe, you are able to believe because you discount certain things in holy scripture.
Therefore is it not your ideology that is based on wishful thinking?
For you believe what you believe because it is what you want to believe; as evidence by the fact that you pick and choose what scriptures you believe are inspired and which ones you believe are not inspired.
Therefore it is your religion that is not based in the word of God but in your own idea.
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Originally Posted by Jerwade
And your beliefs are predicated on what was falsely adopted by Christianism which came from a variety of other cultures in order to create an amalgamated religion by reconciling all the various beliefs into a single religion to solidity their control over the people. What you preach is out of ignorance, not knowing or understanding the truth of the matter. You merely continue to follow the Pagan beliefs of an underworld that is incorrectly called HELL for there is no such place, other than the grave. Again, your beliefs are based on ignorance.
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
My beliefs are based on KNOWLEDGE of what the Bible says; and therefore are not based on ignorance.
You have been corrected several times, regarding your false beliefs of eternal punishment. But don't go kidding yourself, as your beliefs are NOT based on knowledge. They are predicated on rote learning and an ignorance of history, and a failure to understand various languages. You merely follow myth's and fables, while shaking that tree of ignorance. I walked away from the ignorant teachings of extreme fundamentalism decades ago, not from that of an intelligent design for the maturation of humanity which is in need of Spiritual growth.
I can agree that there is ' everlasting punishment ' and I find that everlasting punishment to be as found at 2nd Thess. 1:9
Punished with ' everlasting destruction '.
So, it is No wonder that Scripture teaches the wicked will be ' destroyed forever '- Psalms 92:7; 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
"everlasting destruction" refers to an equation in algebra, wherein the essence is continually diminished and never reaches zero while time goes on. The person continues to be destroyed, everlastingly; but is never completely destroyed.
This equation is y = 1 / x.
On the graph it continues to go down to the right in a curve where y never reaches zero.
You have no clue what forgiveness is or how it is attained.
I know exactly how it is obtained...through faith in Jesus and His shed blood.
I know that you reject this basic concept of holy scripture...
And I would say to you that because of it, you will not be saved...except you repent and believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
You have been corrected several times, regarding your false beliefs of eternal punishment. But don't go kidding yourself, as your beliefs are NOT based on knowledge. They are predicated on rote learning and an ignorance of history, and a failure to understand various languages. You merely follow myth's and fables, while shaking that tree of ignorance. I walked away from the ignorant teachings of extreme fundamentalism decades ago, not from that of an intelligent design for the maturation of humanity which is in need of Spiritual growth.
My belief on eternal punishment is based on the understanding that the educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus while the common people heard Him gladly.
Which corresponds today to educated Greek and Hebrew scholars, who are also inclined to reject the Lord; while the common people of today, who read the Bible in their own language, are more inclined to receive Him.
I do not believe that the Lord would limit His unadulterated message of salvation to those who are inclined to reject Him. I believe that He would give the real message, without mincing words, to the common people, who are inclined to receive Him; that is, to those who read the Bible in their own language.
.
.
.
God is both Omnipotent and sovereign and loving.
Because He is Omnipotent and sovereign, He is able to preserve His unadulterated message in the languages of the common people.
Because He is loving, He is motivated to do so.
Therefore, I believe that God has given His unadulterated message to the common people in their own languages.
And therefore, when God says, "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25"46, He means, "everlasting punishment."
"everlasting destruction" refers to an equation in algebra, wherein the essence is continually diminished and never reaches zero while time goes on. The person continues to be destroyed, everlastingly; but is never completely destroyed.
This equation is y = 1 / x.
On the graph it continues to go down to the right in a curve where y never reaches zero.
Marvin Vincent, one of the most prominent Bible scholars of the nineteenth century, was also a prolific writer, teacher, professor, and pastor. As a major Greek scholar, textual critic, and Bible translator, his writing is characterized by careful exegesis and attention to historical context of Scripture.
Those who seek to diminish the warning that God gives as concerning the punishment that there is for committing iniquity will find on their day of judgment that they were deceived and that they also deceived others; and that this resulted in those being deceived being cast into everlasting punishment; for that they did not heed the warning that was given and repent of their sins.
If they would have believed the warning that was given, they might have repented; but, because they were told that the warning actually has no meaning, they disregarded the warning and never did repent. So, they will "die in their sins" and will face the consequences in eternity.
You have been corrected several times, regarding your false beliefs of eternal punishment. But don't go kidding yourself, as your beliefs are NOT based on knowledge. They are predicated on rote learning and an ignorance of history, and a failure to understand various languages. You merely follow myth's and fables, while shaking that tree of ignorance. I walked away from the ignorant teachings of extreme fundamentalism decades ago, not from that of an intelligent design for the maturation of humanity which is in need of Spiritual growth.
Unfortunately for him and his clone, they prefer rote to the knowledge of the living God.
Unfortunately for him and his clone, they prefer rote to the knowledge of the living God.
The wheel is turning but the gerbil is dead.
My belief on eternal punishment is based on the understanding that the educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus while the common people heard Him gladly.
Which corresponds today to educated Greek and Hebrew scholars, who are also inclined to reject the Lord; while the common people of today, who read the Bible in their own language, are more inclined to receive Him.
I do not believe that the Lord would limit His unadulterated message of salvation to those who are inclined to reject Him. I believe that He would give the real message, without mincing words, to the common people, who are inclined to receive Him; that is, to those who read the Bible in their own language.
.
.
.
God is both Omnipotent and sovereign and loving.
Because He is Omnipotent and sovereign, He is able to preserve His unadulterated message in the languages of the common people.
Because He is loving, He is motivated to do so.
Therefore, I believe that God has given His unadulterated message to the common people in their own languages.
And therefore, when God says, "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25"46, He means, "everlasting punishment."
There is exactly one passage of Canon speaking of "everlasting punishment" / aionios kolasis. The foundation for everlasting punishment = ? ? ? ? ?
Search = "everlasting punishment"
Results = 1 verse found (Matt. 25:46)
The five (5) qualifications for aionios kolasis/ everlasting punishment according to the Master of reconciliation =
1.________________?
2.________________?
3.________________?
4.________________?
5.________________?
I was hungry, and you gave me no meat. #1
I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink. #2
I was a stranger, and you took me not in. #3
I was naked, and you clothed me not. #4
I was sick, and in prison, and you visited me not. #5
This, you poor dear boy, is precisely what is the foundation for everlasting punishment!
Perhaps you should inform the Master of all, He is mistaken. (LOL)
According to Matt. 25:46, if everlasting punishment comes to an end, as the UR says, then everlasting life will also come to an end.
Show us in scripture where either of these comes to an end and you will have a foundation!
Pretty simple, don't you think?
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