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But, you say that justice is not compatible with God's agape love.
I do not say that. I say that YOUR human concept of justice as punishment is not compatible with God's Holy Spirit of agape love.
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So, a question I have for you Mystic.
You believe that someone who murders someone should not be punished but set free to commit the same crime another time, correct?
No, not correct! I say they should reap EXACTLY what they sowed and God will balance the scales as only He can.
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Because to punish the murderer would be justice and judgment.
That is our human concept of justice and it is flawed because we are flawed.
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But you say that justice and judgment are not in accordance with God's agape love.
I say that our HUMAN concept of justice and judgment are not compatible with God's agape love. But God's perfect justice will balance the scales and correct the inequities for both perpetrators and victims with appropriate consequences, NOT imposed punishments.
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So, you favour loving the serial killer at the expense of his victims.
Do you really believe that this is love?
But, you say that justice is not compatible with God's agape love.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I do not say that. I say that YOUR human concept of justice as punishment is not compatible with God's Holy Spirit of agape love.
Except that my concept of justice, in understanding that there is everlasting punishment, is not my human concept of justice; but a concept that is derived from the word of the Lord.
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So, a question I have for you Mystic.
You believe that someone who murders someone should not be punished but set free to commit the same crime another time, correct?
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No, not correct! I say they should reap EXACTLY what they sowed and God will balance the scales as only He can.
The problem is that we will continue to sow to the flesh after we have been cast into hell, if we are not born again. Because one must be born again in order for the sin nature to be dealt with.
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Because to punish the murderer would be justice and judgment.
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That is our human concept of justice and it is flawed because we are flawed.
That is why we should look to the word of God in order to derive our concept of justice; not just what we want to believe from it but the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD.
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But you say that justice and judgment are not in accordance with God's agape love.
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I say that our HUMAN concept of justice and judgment are not compatible with God's agape love.
Again, what you call a human concept is derived from the word of the Lord and is therefore not a human concept of justice but a divine concept of justice (i.e. everlasting punishment).
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So, you favour loving the serial killer at the expense of his victims.
You really believe that this is love?
I would say that you have a perverted point of view.
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But God's perfect justice will balance the scales and correct the inequities for both perpetrators and victims with appropriate consequences, NOT imposed punishments.
And again, God's perfect justice is told to us in the word of the Lord. You take your human concept of justice and apply it to the word; and judge that the divine concept is not in accordance with God's agape love; based on your human concept of justice.
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Of course not, that is absurd!
Yet, you believe that judgment is not an attribute in God's agape love.
Without judgment, the serial killer will go free and will murder again.
Except that my concept of justice, in understanding that there is everlasting punishment, is not my human concept of justice; but a concept that is derived from the word of the Lord.
It is a HUMAN concept of justice IMPOSED on the verses by ignorant, savage HUMANS who ignored Christ's demonstration of agape love because they had no such concept in their hearts.
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The problem is that we will continue to sow to the flesh after we have been cast into hell, if we are not born again. Because one must be born again in order for the sin nature to be dealt with.
That is your HUMAN concept of Hell IMPOSED on the verses by your human concept of punishment as the way to deal with evil. God is not limited to our human concept of justice.
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That is why we should look to the word of God in order to derive our concept of justice; not just what we want to believe from it but the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD.
You cannot escape your human concept of justice and vengeance based on your concept of a wrathful and vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifice. But Jesus revealed and unambiguously demonstrated that God IS agape love and under that concept of God your human concept of justice is NOT compatible with God's Holy Spirit.
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Again, what you call a human concept is derived from the word of the Lord and is therefore not a human concept of justice but a divine concept of justice (i.e. everlasting punishment).
It is not remotely divine. It is derived from verses BY HUMANS using their human concept of justice and punishment. Everlasting punishment is not Divine, it is unbelievably evil and vengeful!
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And again, God's perfect justice is told to us in the word of the Lord. You take your human concept of justice and apply it to the word; and judge that the divine concept is not in accordance with God's agape love; based on your human concept of justice.
It is NOT MY concept of justice. Jesus unambiguously demonstrated God's Holy Spirit of agape love and THAT is the basis for the concept of God's justice which is beyond our grasp. ONLY God can administer TRUE Justice and balance the scales in all directions.
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Yet, you believe that judgment is not an attribute in God's agape love.
I believe spiritual CONSEQUENCES exist that are determined entirely by what WE sow.
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Without judgment, the serial killer will go free and will murder again.
Utter nonsense. Only under human justice can that happen. In the hands of God, the murderer will reap exactly what he sows, no more and no less.
It is a HUMAN concept of justice IMPOSED on the verses by ignorant, savage HUMANS who ignored Christ's demonstration of agape love because they had no such concept in their hearts. That is your HUMAN concept of Hell IMPOSED on the verses by your human concept of punishment as the way to deal with evil. God is not limited to our human concept of justice. You cannot escape your human concept of justice and vengeance based on your concept of a wrathful and vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifice. But Jesus revealed and unambiguously demonstrated that God IS agape love and under that concept of God your human concept of justice is NOT compatible with God's Holy Spirit. It is not remotely divine. It is derived from verses BY HUMANS using their human concept of justice and punishment. Everlasting punishment is not Divine, it is unbelievably evil and vengeful! It is NOT MY concept of justice. Jesus unambiguously demonstrated God's Holy Spirit of agape love and THAT is the basis for the concept of God's justice which is beyond our grasp. ONLY God can administer TRUE Justice and balance the scales in all directions. I believe spiritual CONSEQUENCES exist that are determined entirely by what WE sow. Utter nonsense. Only under human justice can that happen. In the hands of God, the murderer will reap exactly what he sows, no more and no less.
When a murderer kills, what does he sow and what does he reap?
Is it not a life for a life?
As for my human concept, I leave you to judge by the scriptures what is the DIVINE CONCEPT of justice as it is written of in the holy scriptures.
Mar 9:42, And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Mar 9:43, And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45, And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47, And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Now, I would ask you, what do you perceive Jesus is saying here about the divine concept of justice?
Is it not your concept of justice that is human; and Jesus' divine; since He is God and you are a man?
When a murderer kills, what does he sow and what does he reap?
Is it not a life for a life?
As for my human concept, I leave you to judge by the scriptures what is the DIVINE CONCEPT of justice as it is written of in the holy scriptures.
Mar 9:42, And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Mar 9:43, And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45, And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47, And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Now, I would ask you, what do you perceive Jesus is saying here about the divine concept of justice?
Is it not your concept of justice that is human; and Jesus' divine; since He is God and you are a man?
You do realize it was written by men? And the concept of an eye for an eye comes from them.
You do realize it was written by men? And the concept of an eye for an eye comes from them.
No he doesn't, Jer, nor does he recognize the primitive eye-for-an-eye mindset that Jesus had to appeal to at that time. His demonstration of God's True Nature was supposed to eventually sink in and be recognized making the primitive interpretations obviously wrong.
That didn't happen and he and Charlie indicate how difficult it has become to ever make that realization effective. The carnal-minded aversion to such "wimpy" and "hippie" love connotations is very strong among too many males.
There is nothing special about certain men, and their professed beliefs that they are holy men of God.
Just because you have been brainwashed by religion to see yourself as a sinner in need of their cure.
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Originally Posted by Charlie24
Straight out defying God as plain as possible!
My Mama told there were men like you!
I do not deny the existence of a God, however I do disagree with men and their particular beliefs. As for mother's, mine told my sisters not to get involved with a man, who is an extreme fundamentalist, most are narcissistic with a strong desire or need to control, having an inflated sense of their own importance; a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others. In addition to a few other things!
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