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Sin for the true believer is a non-issue all our sins have been taken away never to be seen again until you run into the 1John 1:9 fanatics who want you to dredge all of them back up. For the unbeliever you have been dead spiritually your whole life and it doesn't really matter what you do, you have one horrific place you end up apart from God. You can't relate to that because God is still orbiting and waiting for you to wake up and accept him. Being forever cut off from God eternally will be a whole new mind trip, and not a pleasant one.
Sin for the true believer is a non-issue all our sins have been taken away never to be seen again until you run into the 1John 1:9 fanatics who want you to dredge all of them back up. For the unbeliever you have been dead spiritually your whole life and it doesn't really matter what you do, you have one horrific place you end up apart from God. You can't relate to that because God is still orbiting and waiting for you to wake up and accept him. Being forever cut off from God eternally will be a whole new mind trip, and not a pleasant one.
How special that you're the kid with the ice-cream cone, and never were an unbeliever.
Now, isn't that sweet. Talk about being fanatical and overly pious about one's achievement.
Sin for the true believer is a non-issue all our sins have been taken away never to be seen again until you run into the 1John 1:9 fanatics who want you to dredge all of them back up. For the unbeliever you have been dead spiritually your whole life and it doesn't really matter what you do, you have one horrific place you end up apart from God. You can't relate to that because God is still orbiting and waiting for you to wake up and accept him. Being forever cut off from God eternally will be a whole new mind trip, and not a pleasant one.
That’s a messed up theory
So basically in your opinion you are saying unbelief and spiritual death is ‘the sin’ that we are born with, and that we are to repent of that disbelief, however that is impossible as believing is something that only living people are able to do, if you are dead you can do anything
That is how it works mike. we are reconciled by his death whether we believe it or not. Paul goes on to say now be reconciled in your mind that you have been reconciled.
Sin for the true believer is a non-issue all our sins have been taken away never to be seen again until you run into the 1John 1:9 fanatics who want you to dredge all of them back up. For the unbeliever you have been dead spiritually your whole life and it doesn't really matter what you do, you have one horrific place you end up apart from God. You can't relate to that because God is still orbiting and waiting for you to wake up and accept him. Being forever cut off from God eternally will be a whole new mind trip, and not a pleasant one.
1 John 1:9 is not a verse for fanatics. Sin as it related to the issue of eternal salvation was indeed taken care of at the cross. Sin was judicially judged and forgiven. But sin in the believer's life still puts the believer out of fellowship with God until it is acknowledged to God. When the believer names the sin to God He forgives that sin in a relational sense and all unknown sins - sins you committed but didn't know that they were sins and sins you have forgotten about.
1 John 1:9 wasn't written because the writer had to put something down in print and didn't know what else to write. When the believer sins he goes out of fellowship with God and loses the filling of the Spirit - not the indwelling of the Spirit but the filling of the Spirit which is why the believer is commanded to be filled with the Spirit. The believer is never commanded to be indwelt by the Spirit, but he is commanded to be filled with the Spirit as per Ephesians 5:18.
To put it another way, when the believer sins he goes into a state of carnality. When he acknowledges the sin he is restored to a state of spirituality. At any given time the believer is either carnal or spiritual.
Here is a visual diagram picturing what I'm talking about.
1 John 1:9 is not a verse for fanatics. Sin as it related to the issue of eternal salvation was indeed taken care of at the cross. Sin was judicially judged and forgiven. But sin in the believer's life still puts the believer out of fellowship with God until it is acknowledged to God. When the believer names the sin to God He forgives that sin in a relational sense and all unknown sins - sins you committed but didn't know that they were sins and sins you have forgotten about.
1 John 1:9 wasn't written because the writer had to put something down in print and didn't know what else to write. When the believer sins he goes out of fellowship with God and loses the filling of the Spirit - not the indwelling of the Spirit but the filling of the Spirit which is why the believer is commanded to be filled with the Spirit. The believer is never commanded to be indwelt by the Spirit, but he is commanded to be filled with the Spirit as per Ephesians 5:18.
To put it another way, when the believer sins he goes into a state of carnality. When he acknowledges the sin he is restored to a state of spirituality. At any given time the believer is either carnal or spiritual.
Here is a visual diagram picturing what I'm talking about.
Very close, Michael. Except for the fact that you think we have something to do with what you call positional in-dwelling. We don't. It IS permanent and Jesus did it for us. We cannot undo what Jesus has accomplished!
When we believe or have faith in Jesus that affects whether or not we achieve what you call experiential filling of the Holy Spirit (being in the states of mind I keep posting). Only when we are in those states of mind are we safe from committing sin and its consequences.
Very close, Michael. Except for the fact that you think we have something to do with what you call positional in-dwelling. We don't. It IS permanent and Jesus did it for us. We cannot undo what Jesus has accomplished!
When we believe or have faith in Jesus that affects whether or not we achieve what you call experiential filling of the Holy Spirit (being in the states of mind I keep posting). Only when we are in those states of mind are we safe from committing sin and its consequences.
Go back and read what I said. The indwelling of the Spirit is not the filling of the Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is permanent but the filling of the Spirit is not. When the believer sins he quenches and grieves the Holy Spirit. The filling of the Spirit is lost when the believer sins and is recovered when the sin is acknowledged. When the believer sins, rapport between God and man is disrupted and is restored when the sin is confessed to God.
There are several ministries of the Holy Spirit of which the indwelling and filling of the Spirit are but two.
What is the big deal about sin? Sin is defined as disobeying God.
Everyone sins. Nobody is good enough to live a life without sinning.
Sin determines what happens to you after you die.
God provided a way to have your sins forgiven.
But if you intend to do it again, there is no forgiveness.
It's your choice.
If you are saying that you can only be forgiven once for committing a particular sin and if you commit that same sin again God won't forgive you, that simply is not true. Every single time you commit the same sin, God forgives it the moment you acknowledge that sin.
Go back and read what I said. The indwelling of the Spirit is not the filling of the Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is permanent but the filling of the Spirit is not. When the believer sins he quenches and grieves the Holy Spirit. The filling of the Spirit is lost when the believer sins and is recovered when the sin is acknowledged. When the believer sins, rapport between God and man is disrupted and is restored when the sin is confessed to God.
I read and understood, Michael. You are correct. The permanent positional indwelling for humanity was accomplished by Jesus and we have nothing to do with it. It cannot be undone by anything we do or do not do. The experiential filling is dependent upon those states of mind of the Holy Spirit that I keep posting.
When we are in those states of mind we are in Christ and safe from sin and its consequences. When we are not, we are vulnerable until we repent (or what you prefer to call acknowledge our sin). The point is to get back into those safe states of mind which are guided by the Comforter (Holy Spirit).
Quote:
There are several ministries of the Holy Spirit of which the indwelling and filling of the Spirit are but two.
I am pleased to see this separation and understanding is developing. Faith is what triggers the temporary filling and proves we have the requisite faith to avoid or minimize the correction (kolasis) but we are all permanently "saved as by fire" by what Jesus did.
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