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There is a strange understanding of the trinity in LDS which can push people away from God
Mormons don't even believe in "the Trinity," but they do believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. Nothing strange there, and certainly nothing that would "push people away from God." Comments from Mormon-haters, though, could conceivably push people away from Mormonism because people do, after all, find it much easier to hate any group when their understanding of that group's doctrines is colored by disinformation.
Mormons don't even believe in "the Trinity," but they do believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. Nothing strange there, and certainly nothing that would "push people away from God." Comments from Mormon-haters, though, could conceivably push people away from Mormonism because people do, after all, find it much easier to hate any group when their understanding of that group's doctrines is colored by disinformation.
No, there's nothing APPARENTLY strange there in JUST THAT first statement. But... that isn't the complete summation of the issue. You have to read the fine print. Just like you do with any denomination or religion.
But as you said, there is "nothing there that would push people away from God" (as long as they don't believe in the orthodox Trinity view), but that's not REAL certain like the first statement was.
Would you classify Mormons as "Christian-haters" because Mormons believe theirs is the only true church? Just wondering.
Hate can come from lack of understanding, yes. Not always. People often accept and embrace ideas at first glance with no critical analysis at all. But hate can also come from TOO MUCH understanding, or too thorough an understanding.
Not to excuse it, because hate is not the right response, no matter what. Because real change doesn't come from fear. God is interested in real change.
No, there's nothing APPARENTLY strange there in JUST THAT first statement. But... that isn't the complete summation of the issue. You have to read the fine print. Just like you do with any denomination or religion.
Okay, so do you want to talk about what's in the fine print? I'm totally open to doing that.
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But as you said, there is "nothing there that would push people away from God" (as long as they don't believe in the orthodox Trinity view), but that's not REAL certain like the first statement was.
Sorry, but I really just didn't understand this statement. You're going to have to clarify what you meant if you'd like me to comment.
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Would you classify Mormons as "Christian-haters" because Mormons believe theirs is the only true church? Just wondering.
That's a really odd question. Why would Mormons hate Christians since they are Christians? Mormons don't hate anybody, and they would never tell another Christian that he's not "a real Christian." "Real Christians" worship Jesus Christ as their Savior. Mormons are only one tiny part of a very large group that does this.
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Hate can come from lack of understanding, yes. Not always. People often accept and embrace ideas at first glance with no critical analysis at all. But hate can also come from TOO MUCH understanding, or too thorough an understanding.
Again, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at. It kind of sounds like you're wanting to say something and are just dancing around it instead.
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Not to excuse it, because hate is not the right response, no matter what. Because real change doesn't come from fear. God is interested in real change.
No, there's nothing APPARENTLY strange there in JUST THAT first statement. But... that isn't the complete summation of the issue. You have to read the fine print. Just like you do with any denomination or religion.
But as you said, there is "nothing there that would push people away from God" (as long as they don't believe in the orthodox Trinity view), but that's not REAL certain like the first statement was.
Would you classify Mormons as "Christian-haters" because Mormons believe theirs is the only true church? Just wondering.
Hate can come from lack of understanding, yes. Not always. People often accept and embrace ideas at first glance with no critical analysis at all. But hate can also come from TOO MUCH understanding, or too thorough an understanding.
Not to excuse it, because hate is not the right response, no matter what. Because real change doesn't come from fear. God is interested in real change.
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Originally Posted by Katzpur
Okay, so do you want to talk about what's in the fine print? I'm totally open to doing that.
Sorry, but I really just didn't understand this statement. You're going to have to clarify what you meant if you'd like me to comment.
That's a really odd question. Why would Mormons hate Christians since they are Christians? Mormons don't hate anybody, and they would never tell another Christian that he's not "a real Christian." "Real Christians" worship Jesus Christ as their Savior. Mormons are only one tiny part of a very large group that does this.
Again, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at. It kind of sounds like you're wanting to say something and are just dancing around it instead.
Agreed.
From what I have been learning by Katzpur sharing and also reading about the LDS church their focus is not hating Or judging others as regards their business, part, revelation
They are intent on their own business, their own part, their own revelation and remain focused on Christ
From what I have been learning by Katzpur sharing and also reading about the LDS church their focus is not hating Or judging others as regards their business, part, revelation
They are intent on their own business, their own part, their own revelation and remain focused on Christ
From what I have been learning by Katzpur sharing and also reading about the LDS church their focus is not hating Or judging others as regards their business, part, revelation
They are intent on their own business, their own part, their own revelation and remain focused on Christ
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Thank you. That's what our focus is, not that we always measure up, because we definitely don't!
................They are intent on their own business, their own part, their own revelation and remain focused on Christ
My understanding is that diligence, family values, and financial self-sufficiency are Mormon watchwords.
When some things are hidden from outsiders then they can become a target for rumors.
I found it odd that when Marie Osmond married in the Temple means it is for time and eternity. (forever)
In other words, remain intact in Heaven and even have children there. Yet, she divorced from a permanent marriage?
Besides the Bible they believe in the Book of Mormon as also being from God.
Joseph Smith lauded the Book of Mormon as "the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of their religion."
A difference or addition to the Bible's '66' books then to me means they think the Bible is: inadequate.
At 2 Nephi 29:6 in the Book of Mormon says, " Thou fool that shall say: A Bible we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible."
For example: the Lord of 1st Thess. 4:16 is Jesus, however Mormons think Michael is another name for Adam, the archangel, and had the former spirits Adam and Eve remained sinless they would have been childless and joyless alone in Paradise (Eden). That is Not what the Bible teaches.
Focused on Christ to me would be the pattern to follow, thus the account of Jesus stands in contrast to LDS teachings.
Mosaic Law tithing was terminated /ended by the death of Jesus. Since then contributions are to be voluntary and Not under any compulsion or amount
- 2nd Corinthians 9:7; Galatians 3:10-13, 24-25. Ephesians 2:15.
My understanding is that diligence, family values, and financial self-sufficiency are Mormon watchwords.
When some things are hidden from outsiders then they can become a target for rumors.
I found it odd that when Marie Osmond married in the Temple means it is for time and eternity. (forever)
In other words, remain intact in Heaven and even have children there. Yet, she divorced from a permanent marriage?
A temple marriage is eternal only if the couple both keep the covenants they make with God in the temple. One of these covenants is to love one another forever. While it is obviously the hope of every couple that their love endure through both the happy and sad times, sometimes it doesn't. God would not force a person to be married eternally to someone they didn't love any more.
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Besides the Bible they believe in the Book of Mormon as also being from God.
Joseph Smith lauded the Book of Mormon as "the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of their religion."
A difference or addition to the Bible's '66' books then to me means they think the Bible is: inadequate.
At 2 Nephi 29:6 in the Book of Mormon says, " Thou fool that shall say: A Bible we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible."
Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews? Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever. Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written. For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it. And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews. And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the lands of their possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in one. And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever."
To me, the part I underlined is very, very important. There is no justifiable reason for anyone to assume that God would have only spoken to one small group of people in the Holy Land and completely ignored those on the other side of the world.
With respect to Joseph Smith's statement that The Book of Mormon is "the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion," Joseph was speaking not of its contents but of the fact that it came to exist through a single translator, translating an original document, whereas the Bible was a collection of writings that had been transcribed and translated many, many times over several hundred years before it became what it is today. Interestingly, “the most correct book” implies that it may not be absolutely correct, and on the title page of the Book of Mormon, Joseph made a point of saying, "And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ." The Bible makes no such disclaimer, even though we know it is not inerrant.
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For example: the Lord of 1st Thess. 4:16 is Jesus, however Mormons think Michael is another name for Adam, the archangel, and had the former spirits Adam and Eve remained sinless they would have been childless and joyless alone in Paradise (Eden). That is Not what the Bible teaches.
Well, to begin with, the Bible never says there is only one archangel. Mormons do, however, believe that we all existed pre-mortally and that in the pre-mortal existence, the individual known as Adam in the Old Testament was known as Michael. The Bible may not teach that this is the case, but neither does it say otherwise.
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Focused on Christ to me would be the pattern to follow, thus the account of Jesus stands in contrast to LDS teachings.
There is no Christian Church whose members are more focused on Christ than The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
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Mosaic Law tithing was terminated /ended by the death of Jesus. Since then contributions are to be voluntary and Not under any compulsion or amount
- 2nd Corinthians 9:7; Galatians 3:10-13, 24-25. Ephesians 2:15.
Those passages are as good an excuse for not paying a tithing as any, but none of them say that the law of tithing was terminated by the death of Jesus. Mormons actually pay a 10% tithe plus additional offerings as we are able. We would agree, though, that the attitude with which a person tithes is important. God doesn't want us to give grudgingly.
As much as I search I do Not find Jesus recommending or commanding tithing for his followers.
We can read Jesus sent out his followers to preach and teach but Jesus made No tithing support or provision for them.
- Matthew 10:1-42; Matthew 28:19-20; Luke 9:1-10; Luke 10:1-17; Acts 1:8.
Jesus came and fulilled the Constitution of the Mosaic Law for the one nation that nation of ancient Israel - Colossians 2:14-16
Jesus gave Christians a New Commandment at John 13:34-35. Love more than the Golden Rule. - Matthew 22:36-40.
Christians consecrate, so to speak, everything to God's service along with aid and comfort for ever strangers as Jesus set the standard.
Just as Jesus gave the example of the neighborly good Samaritan who went beyond the 'tenth', so to speak.
So, Christians are under a Superior Law as Jesus brings out at Matthew 19:20-22.
Thus, the Law was just a shadow according to Hebrews 10. A shadow Not binding on Christians.
To me Romans 10:4; 7:6 is clear that Jesus is the end of the Law - Matthew 5:17
As much as I search I do Not find Jesus recommending or commanding tithing for his followers.
We can read Jesus sent out his followers to preach and teach but Jesus made No tithing support or provision for them.
- Matthew 10:1-42; Matthew 28:19-20; Luke 9:1-10; Luke 10:1-17; Acts 1:8.
Jesus came and fulilled the Constitution of the Mosaic Law for the one nation that nation of ancient Israel - Colossians 2:14-16
Jesus gave Christians a New Commandment at John 13:34-35. Love more than the Golden Rule. - Matthew 22:36-40.
Christians consecrate, so to speak, everything to God's service along with aid and comfort for ever strangers as Jesus set the standard.
Just as Jesus gave the example of the neighborly good Samaritan who went beyond the 'tenth', so to speak.
So, Christians are under a Superior Law as Jesus brings out at Matthew 19:20-22.
Thus, the Law was just a shadow according to Hebrews 10. A shadow Not binding on Christians.
To me Romans 10:4; 7:6 is clear that Jesus is the end of the Law - Matthew 5:17
Luke 11:42 says, "But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." I understand Jesus to be saying that we need to continue paying tithes (i.e., not leave them undone) but focus instead on the "weightier matters" which include the judgment and love of God. In other words, I believe He was telling them that they had their priorities messed up.
Last edited by Katzpur; 10-23-2021 at 06:15 PM..
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