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Right. So you believe Paul suffering in prison is penance? Really? No.
Yes. Any suffering can be offered up as penance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
How about an actual clear reference to it, rather than one you have to read in your presuppositions to?
Any time repentance is mentioned, penance is necessarily implied. What do you think penance is? What good is repentance without penance? I know you believe in justice.
If I steal from you, what good is my apology if I make no effort to repay you?
Any time repentance is mentioned, penance is necessarily implied. What do you think penance is? What good is repentance without penance? I know you believe in justice.
If I steal from you, what good is my apology if I make no effort to repay you?
Not sure about the apostles but Jesus covers that concept here
Literal version
Mat 5:21**You heard that it was said to the ancients: You will not murder, and whoever may murder will be in danger of the judgment;
Mat 5:22**but I say to you that everyone who is angry at his brother without cause, will be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Stupid, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, and whoever may say, Moron, will be in danger of the Gehenna of fire.
Mat 5:23**If, therefore, you may bring your gift to the altar, and there may remember that your brother has anything against you,
Mat 5:24**leave there your gift before the altar, and go—first be reconciled to your brother, and then having come, bring your gift.
Mat 5:25**Be agreeing with your opponent quickly, while you are in the way with him, that the opponent may not deliver you to the judge, and the judge may deliver you to the officer, and you may be cast into prison,
Mat 5:26**truly I say to you, you may not come forth from there until you may pay the last penny.
It seems to me the ‘penance’ needs to be relevant to the type of ‘injury’ though
I truly wonder what kind of God you imagine our Father to be if you think offering up your suffering would have any value to Him whatsoever. He would rather suffer for us than have us suffer. The more you reveal about what your God is like, the less I can relate Him to the God I encountered, Mike.
I truly wonder what kind of God you imagine our Father to be if you think offering up your suffering would have any value to Him whatsoever. He would rather suffer for us than have us suffer. The more you reveal about what your God is like, the less I can relate Him to the God I encountered, Mike.
Hebrews 12:5-11 refers to chastening or correction which refers to refinement of our Spirit, NOT everlasting punishment!!! You make no effort to consider that the phrasing to our ancestors needed to be such that it would be understandable to their primitive and more savage minds. Truly civilized minds are a relatively modern phenomenon.
Hebrews 12:5-11 refers to chastening or correction which refers to refinement of our Spirit, NOT everlasting punishment!!! You make no effort to consider that the phrasing to our ancestors needed to be such that it would be understandable to their primitive and more savage minds. Truly civilized minds are a relatively modern phenomenon.
I was not saying that Hebrews 12:5-11 was referring to eternal punishment.
Clearly, EscalaMike was speaking of purgatory in the context of this conversation. I was merely referring to the fact that your statement in response to him was incorrect.
Our suffering is of value to the Lord.
While I do not believe that we are chastened in purgatory but rather before we pass on into the next life if we are truly born again.
I was not saying that Hebrews 12:5-11 was referring to eternal punishment.
Clearly, EscalaMike was speaking of purgatory in the context of this conversation. I was merely referring to the fact that your statement in response to him was incorrect.
Our suffering is of value to the Lord.
While I do not believe that we are chastened in purgatory but rather before we pass on into the next life if we are truly born again.
It doesn't matter. Chastening is a correction for the purpose of teaching not inflicting suffering. Suffering has no part in it and is of no value to God.
It doesn't matter. Chastening is a correction for the purpose of teaching not inflicting suffering. Suffering has no part in it and is of no value to God.
There is most certainly pain involved in chastening.
When your father on earth gives you a spanking, you feel pain.
That is chastening that is even referred to in the passage.
The suffering does NOT please God nor does it have any impact on God. It has no value to God. It is only of value to correct us.
I think that God is pleased when His correction produces in us the peaceable fruit of righteousness.
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