Question for the Christian Universalists (Gospel, messages, hell, punishment)
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I was wondering what the Christian Universalist's believe about the Second Coming of Christ (obviously it hasn't happened), but what is the point of the Second coming as it says in Scriptures if there is universal salvation. I agree with universal salvation, but I am just trying to figure out the Second Coming too. And what do you think about the Rapture theory?
Thanks!
Hi Live4Jesus, Christian Universalists may not agree on all aspects of these subjects but I believe that Jesus will return to set up an earthly kingdom and that He will rule and reign with the saints, the elect. I believe that during this reign eventually all will be made subject to Him, which will involve judgment, tribulations, conviction, ect. leading to the end result of God reigning in all hearts. I believe that this is all a part of the process leading up to the restoration of all. I do believe in the rapture and still studying this. God bless.
But what is the purpose of the rapture, it almost seems kinda silly (but I don't know) that God would take away all those who believe in Him and leave all those who don't, who will tell them about Christ. And what would be the purpose. I am just trying to figure things out, if I sound rude I really don't mean to be.
But what is the purpose of the rapture, it almost seems kinda silly (but I don't know) that God would take away all those who believe in Him and leave all those who don't, who will tell them about Christ. And what would be the purpose. I am just trying to figure things out, if I sound rude I really don't mean to be.
I want to answer your question about why the rapture. I believe God is going to spare His children the horrible events that are going to happen during that time. I also think it is a final wake up call to unbelievers, and some will be saved during this time. ( But I am not a Universalists).
I was wondering what the Christian Universalist's believe about the Second Coming of Christ (obviously it hasn't happened), but what is the point of the Second coming as it says in Scriptures if there is universal salvation. I agree with universal salvation, but I am just trying to figure out the Second Coming too. And what do you think about the Rapture theory?
Thanks!
A christian universalist is a christian who believes that salvation is in Christ but doesn't think that "hell" is forever. Hell, hades, lake of fire were terms that meant different things but they have been translated as meaning essentially the same thing. Also the meaning of the word aion, aionian are disputed as being eternal. Someone who believes in "universalism" doesn't necessarily believe in Christ, that label can mean a lot of things and some confusion has arisen when its assumed that since someone believes in the ultimate reconciliation of all that they don't believe that the reconciliation is in Christ. It is clear from scripture that salvation is only through Christ.
Have you read 1 Cor 15:22-28. One of the church doctrines that has arisen assumes that the order of reconcilation ends at those that are Christs at his coming and at a persons death, the remainder instead of being reconciled are tormented forever.
Like Shana said at Christs second coming those that are his will be resurrected and reign with him, the purpose of that reign is to bring all into subjection (obedience) so that God is All in All. I am sure being priests and kings would involve more than to sit around playing harps and worshipping God as he torments billions of souls in hell.
With the rapture I believe the "rapture" is the same as the second coming. If you are Christs at his coming you are saved from Gods wrath and are resurrected. With the wrath I would think that the more resistant would get more wrath, the more evil would get more punishment. In Revelation it says that the rest of the dead don't live again til the 1000 years are over. Once the millenium age (aionian relates to the age so those that are Christs have resurrected life during this age and will be ministering to those that are receiving damnation) ends the dead are resurrected but though the millenium reign is over there is more after that - the new heaven and earth when God is All in All.
The assumption has been that because believing in Jesus gives you aionian life and not believing gives you aionian damnation and because once you have life in the Spirit it never ends that the damnation never ends either. The life and damnation relate to the millenium age. Once the millenium is over all are resurrected, God is All in All.
But what is the purpose of the rapture, it almost seems kinda silly (but I don't know) that God would take away all those who believe in Him and leave all those who don't, who will tell them about Christ. And what would be the purpose. I am just trying to figure things out, if I sound rude I really don't mean to be.
I'm thinking that being caught up with Jesus isn't actually going away physically to heaven with Jesus. At His second coming he is making the world His, it is Jesus coming to reign with his kings and priests who are resurrected ie the body is made incorruptible.
A christian universalist is a christian who believes that salvation is in Christ but doesn't think that "hell" is forever. Hell, hades, lake of fire were terms that meant different things but they have been translated as meaning essentially the same thing. Also the meaning of the word aion, aionian are disputed as being eternal. Someone who believes in "universalism" doesn't necessarily believe in Christ, that label can mean a lot of things and some confusion has arisen when its assumed that since someone believes in the ultimate reconciliation of all that they don't believe that the reconciliation is in Christ. It is clear from scripture that salvation is only through Christ.
Have you read 1 Cor 15:22-28. One of the church doctrines that has arisen assumes that the order of reconcilation ends at those that are Christs at his coming and at a persons death, the remainder instead of being reconciled are tormented forever.
Like Shana said at Christs second coming those that are his will be resurrected and reign with him, the purpose of that reign is to bring all into subjection (obedience) so that God is All in All. I am sure being priests and kings would involve more than to sit around playing harps and worshipping God as he torments billions of souls in hell.
With the rapture I believe the "rapture" is the same as the second coming. If you are Christs at his coming you are saved from Gods wrath and are resurrected. With the wrath I would think that the more resistant would get more wrath, the more evil would get more punishment. In Revelation it says that the rest of the dead don't live again til the 1000 years are over. Once the millenium age (aionian relates to the age so those that are Christs have resurrected life during this age and will be ministering to those that are receiving damnation) ends the dead are resurrected but though the millenium reign is over there is more after that - the new heaven and earth when God is All in All.
The assumption has been that because believing in Jesus gives you aionian life and not believing gives you aionian damnation and because once you have life in the Spirit it never ends that the damnation never ends either. The life and damnation relate to the millenium age. Once the millenium is over all are resurrected, God is All in All.
[SIZE=1]Good points, Meerkat. Thanks for sharing. God bless.[/SIZE]
While people who believe in Universal Salvation may not even be Christians, those who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, experience the Holy Spirit and understand Jesus is the Savior of all have as many ideas as exist among other Christians concerning the close of this age and entrance into the next. Never the less, for all the variety, even instability and kooks, there is a stream of the deepest teachers of the Bible and spritual things in that context that I've found and they all believe in the ultimate salvation of all. The following are two (or three) such persons. The best two books I know of concerning near term eschatology are both free on the web: The Laws of the Second Coming by Stephen Jones and Looking for His Appearing by Richard Eby.
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The Laws of the Second Coming is a fabulous book that just reading the chapter headings will alert you to the fact you are on other ground than the common ignorance of Scripture that so abounds in cartoon Christianity. Examine the author's site for some other wonderful materials. He's a remarkable student of the Word. (Through the bookstore you can access a precious woman of God, Bonnie Gaunt, someone who can contribute much to enlarging our knowledge of God's mysteries.)
The following are some Stephen Jones audio messages available free on the web: God's Kingdom Ministries
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The following should take you to another great author, Richard Eby, who taught that "the end of the Lord is mercy" for over 40 years. While a little diffent than Jones, it is a great book by a great teacher. I down loaded Looking for His Appearing piece by piece 'til I had it all.
Hi Live4Jesus, Christian Universalists may not agree on all aspects of these subjects but I believe that Jesus will return to set up an earthly kingdom and that He will rule and reign with the saints, the elect. I believe that during this reign eventually all will be made subject to Him, which will involve judgment, tribulations, conviction, ect. leading to the end result of God reigning in all hearts. I believe that this is all a part of the process leading up to the restoration of all. I do believe in the rapture and still studying this. God bless.
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
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