Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Apples and oranges. Jesus being the Son of God does not make Mary the queen of heaven and she is never called the queen of heaven. That's nothing but a Roman Catholic tradition which has no basis in fact.
Nor is Mary as the queen of heaven a polemic against pagan deities since Mary is never called the queen of heaven by any of the biblical writers.
Jesus being the King makes Mary the Queen Mother in the tradition of Solomon.
You say "nothing but a Roman Catholic tradition", but to many of us that carries serious weight.
In any case, the Orthodox churches also call her Queen of Heaven, so it's more than just a *Roman Catholic* tradition.
Since Mary was in all likelihood still alive on earth when the Gospels were written, it wouldn't have made sense to call her the Queen of Heaven, since she was not yet there.
Jesus being the King makes Mary the Queen Mother in the tradition of Solomon.
No, it does not.
Quote:
You say "nothing but a Roman Catholic tradition", but to many of us that carries serious weight.
In any case, the Orthodox churches also call her Queen of Heaven, so it's more than just a *Roman Catholic* tradition.
Since Mary was in all likelihood still alive on earth when the Gospels were written, it wouldn't have made sense to call her the Queen of Heaven, since she was not yet there.
It doesn't matter how much weight that any church gives to the claim that Mary is the queen of heaven because it is a pagan concept and just another aspect of Mary idolatry.
It doesn't matter how much weight that any church gives to the claim that Mary is the queen of heaven because it is a pagan concept and just another aspect of Mary idolatry.
Many Christian concepts have pagan parallels or precursors that can be seen as foreshadows of Christian truth. That fact is of no consequence except to make Christian claims all the more credible.
There is no Marian idolatry. She is not a goddess and we do not worship her in that sense, no matter how you may wrongfully perceive it.
Apples and oranges. Jesus being the Son of God does not make Mary the queen of heaven and she is never called the queen of heaven. That's nothing but a Roman Catholic tradition which has no basis in fact.
Nor is Mary as the queen of heaven a polemic against pagan deities since Mary is never called the queen of heaven by any of the biblical writers.
Ha! Someone needs to learn some history, and it's not CCCyou.
Ah, considering I have a double minor, history and comparative religions, I will gladly accept the challenge. As we say out west, this ain't my first rodeo.
I understand your defensiveness, but the fact is that by usurping the title 'queen of heaven' which referred to a pagan goddess the Roman Catholic church in effect grouped Mary with pagan goddesses. There is no queen of heaven except in pagan beliefs.
...more nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
The 'woman' in Revelation 12:1 symbolizes Israel, and has nothing to do with the so-called queen of heaven which once again is a reference to a pagan goddess. The twelve stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel or the twelve sons of Jacob.
Wrong. The woman may and does symbolize the NEW Israel, The Church, - but is fulfilled in the living personage of Mary - and it's Mary, the person, not Israel, who gives birth to the male child who is caught up to God's throne - Jesus. You can't stop at just verse 1 and make your conclusions.
The other choice?
Die by the blade of a christian sword.
lessee - 10 million aztecs -vs- a few hundred Spaniards:
The fact is that the bishop reported back to Spain that the enterprise was lost, barring some miracle....
yet a miracle did come, not in the form of military conquest and antihalation of the local native population (like what happened in the USA at the hands of, ahem, american 'Christians'), but in the form of an image miraculously superimposed on a frail cactus fiber tilma (yet somehow still miraculously surviving 450 yrs later) of a poor local native, by the intercession of none other than Our Lady.
But that's getting off topic, a bit.
lessee - 10 million aztecs -vs- a few hundred Spaniards:
The fact is that the bishop reported back to Spain that the enterprise was lost, barring some miracle....
yet a miracle did come, not in the form of military conquest and antihalation of the local native population (like what happened in the USA at the hands of, ahem, american 'Christians'), but in the form of an image miraculously superimposed on a frail cactus fiber tilma (yet somehow still miraculously surviving 450 yrs later) of a poor local native, by the intercession of none other than Our Lady.
But that's getting off topic, a bit.
First of all, there were not 10 million Aztecs when Spaniards arrived in what is now Mexico. Let's deal with this false hood first, and then tackle the rest.
The Protestant view is that we today were not taught directly (orally) by Peter, Paul, or any of the other Apostles. Only the early Christians enjoyed this. What we have is the collected writings of Scripture, and they are sufficient for faith and life. Every tradition needs to be examined in light of the Scripture.
Therefore it's not that Protestants completely reject oral tradition, but they reject oral traditions that either bind the conscience by adding requirements that Scripture does not impose or directly contradict the written Scripture.
In regard to the topic of the virginity of Mary, there is no reason that a Protestant Christian should not hold the personal belief that Mary was ever-virgin. It's not explicitly stated one way or the other in Scripture, so an individual has freedom to believe or not believe. For the RC Church to use "tradition" to make this a matter which must be believed is binding the conscience of the believer with a requirement not imposed by Scripture.
As an example of contradicting the written Scripture: the Bible not only does not mention the practice of praying to saints or to Mary, it says that through Jesus we have direct access to God and should approach him directly and with confidence (e.g. Hebrews 4:16). Therefore the practice (tradition) of praying to saints or to Mary is a contradiction of Scripture and should not be done.
OK, I've been behaving myself up till now, but I have to interject here.
I don't see ANYTHING in Catholicism that "contradicts" scripture. You bring up something common (though it really smacks of Sola Scriptura which isn't scriptural) when you say that the bible doesn't mention the practice of praying to saints or to Mary, for instance - and it most certainly does, even though I don't go by what is NOT mentioned in the bible since Jesus Himself spoke so many words not mentioned in the bible that the libraries of the world couldn't contain them all. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...A8&version=NIV
I am Catholic and I pray directly to God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit during every mass and every day.
Just think about this for a second - if the bible CONDEMNED praying to saints, that would be one thing, but even you say that the bible doesn't mention the practice (which we differ on but for the sake of argument I'll repeat what you've claimed). So Catholic tradition once again is not CONTRADICTING scripture. There's a big difference between something simply being silent on a matter vs speaking against a matter.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
