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I was born and raised as a Catholic (currently I consider myself a believer in God but do not fully adhere to the theology of any organized religion) but personally I do not believe that Yahweh is God.
In the Old Testament, Yahweh is vengeful, violent, petty, vain. He makes covenants/deals with specific nations in exchange for martial success and worldly gain. These do not strike me as qualities of the highest God.
Yahweh to me is a relic of early Canaanite/Jewish polytheism/henotheism and does not represent God. The earliest books repeatedly refer to a pantheon of gods with a supreme God among them, and are not purely monotheistic. Obviously, this presents problems reconciling the 'Gods' of the Old and New Testaments.
During my 13 years of Catholic education, this question was never raised, not surprisingly. Wondering what the thoughts are of other CD members, and what their experiences have been with the various Christian faiths/denominations. Do most non-Orthodox, practicing Jews believe in the certain continuity of Biblical Yahweh and God or not necessarily?
The Lord in the OT is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ... who is different from the sovereign Father.
John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”
The OP says that Yahweh is "Yahweh is vengeful, violent, petty, vain" in the OT.
Gotta love it when finite people on the earth who have been around a few decades sit and judge the eternal Lord.
Sorry, I don't believe that God makes deals with obscure desert tribes, where he demands blood sacrifices in exchange for martial conquest and material riches, obviously at the expense of other peoples. That's not my God, it's something / someone else (or just made-up).
Sorry, I don't believe that God makes deals with obscure desert tribes, where he requests blood sacrifices in exchange for promises of martial conquest and material riches. That's not my God, it's something / someone else (or just made-up).
The Lord can do whatever He wants... well almost.
Got a specific Scripture to reference?
Who is your God? Is it one of your own imagination, or is it the one in the Scriptures? It can't be both.
Sorry, I don't believe that God makes deals with obscure desert tribes, where he demands blood sacrifices in exchange for martial conquest and material riches, obviously at the expense of other peoples. That's not my God, it's something / someone else (or just made-up).
God chose the Jews to be His mouthpiece, if you will. Salvation and communion with God is open to all.
Who is your God? Is it one of your own imagination, or is it the one in the Scriptures? It can't be both.
It's neither. It's one not of imagination, but of my God-given reason. Aquinas taught that if you want a Christian source. I'm not a sheep so I don't need a pastor to mediate my relationship with God. Nor do I need books written by and compiled by man over many centuries. Not to say there is no wisdom or divine inspiration contained in those books, but I don't consider them a flawless block of divinity. The teachings of various churches can offer a framework that is useful for understanding theological concepts, but I don't believe they have a monopoly on religion, which does not require buildings or ministers. For the record, I don't identify with what I know of Gnosticism in any significant way, though that is an interesting point and I will look into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
The Lord in the OT is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ... who is different from the sovereign Father.
What do you mean by this? I've never heard of this concept where Christ existed (separately from God) prior to his birth.
I was born and raised as a Catholic (currently I consider myself a believer in God but do not fully adhere to the theology of any organized religion) but personally I do not believe that Yahweh is God.
In the Old Testament, Yahweh is vengeful, violent, petty, vain. He makes covenants/deals with specific nations in exchange for martial success and worldly gain. These do not strike me as qualities of the highest God.
Yahweh to me is a relic of early Canaanite/Jewish polytheism/henotheism and does not represent God. The earliest books repeatedly refer to a pantheon of gods with a supreme God among them, and are not purely monotheistic. Obviously, this presents problems reconciling the 'Gods' of the Old and New Testaments.
During my 13 years of Catholic education, this question was never raised, not surprisingly. Wondering what the thoughts are of other CD members, and what their experiences have been with the various Christian faiths/denominations. Do most non-Orthodox, practicing Jews believe in the certain continuity of Biblical Yahweh and God or not necessarily?
Yes, I believe that Yahweh is God. The New Testament writers identified Jesus with Yahweh and indeed the Trinitarian belief has its foundations in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament.
It is true however that the Hebrew Bible attributes to Yahweh certain characteristics of pagan gods such as Baal and El. Some of that is polemics. And the divine council in the Old Testament has its counterparts in other ancient Near East religions. The ancient Israelites did worship gods besides Yahweh and may have even believed that Yahweh had a consort or wife.
The Bible, which I do believe is the word of God did not drop down out of heaven as is and the biblical writers understanding of Yahweh was influenced by the time and culture in which they lived.
But the New Testament writers (such as John and the writer of Hebrews) understanding of Jesus as God comes from the Old Testament. The writer of Hebrews identifies Jesus as Yahweh by quoting Psalm 102:25-27 which is part of a prayer to Yahweh and applies it to Jesus in Hebrews 1:10-12. I don't want to turn this into a Jesus is God thread because this forum has a dedicated thread for that. I'm just trying to establish a connection between the Old and New Testament.
Well, earliest Christianity believed that Yahweh was God. Gnostic beliefs which came later, at least in a full blown form did deny that Yahweh was the supreme God, but apostolic Christianity understood the God of the Old Testament to be the God of the New Testament.
You of course will believe what you believe, as will we all.
It's neither. It's one not of imagination, but of my God-given reason. Aquinas taught that if you want a Christian source. I'm not a sheep so I don't need a pastor to mediate my relationship with God. Nor do I need books written by and compiled by man over many centuries. Not to say there is no wisdom or divine inspiration contained in those books, but I don't consider them a flawless block of divinity. The teachings of various churches can offer a framework that is useful for understanding theological concepts, but I don't believe they have a monopoly on religion, which does not require buildings or ministers. For the record, I don't identify with what I know of Gnosticism in any significant way, though that is an interesting point and I will look into it.
I just asked from where are you getting your idea of who God is.
If we are talking about who your best friend is... you don't need logic or reason. You just say - he/she is who he/she is.
If you don't believe God reveals Himself (through the various writings) in the Bible, then who really knows who He is? People will just go by what they believe.
If you do believe God reveals Himself in the Bible, then He is who He is.
I was raised Lutheran which is similar to Catholic. If there’s really a God he/she wouldn’t have needed men to write the Bible. They would have done it themselves. Religion was a way to both control people and a way to explain natural phenomena to uneducated people centuries ago.
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