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For me it’s not about the name of the group you worship with. Whether it be Roman Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Church of God, Church of Christ, Church of the Nazarene, the Way, or whatever. It’s what a group practices and preaches. If it is in line with God’s word, then it is His church. As for the church of Christ, many have slipped into denominationalism. They no longer preach or practice the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles. It’s getting more and more difficult to find those that do. In the beginning, their goal was to restore the church back to the way the Lord intended it to be. I believe those groups are few and far between now.
The reformers had the right idea, but imho, they didn’t go far enough. Yet I am very grateful they were able to accomplish what they did. The restoration movement of the 1800s had the right idea, but as people tend to do, they slip off the path thinking they know more than God. They begin to add their own doctrines, rules, etc.
One of my all time favorite verses is Jeremiah 6:16. To me it represents those who want to walk according to God’s design as opposed to those who choose to walk their own path.
“This is what the LORD says: “Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But you said, ‘We will not walk in it.’”
That’s my philosophy in a nutshell. I want to walk the old paths, the ones Jesus and His Apostles established.
It sounds to me like your church is organized around what you believe the Bible is and harvested beliefs from it that you have convinced yourself is sound doctrine, and if any other church group doesn't practice and preach as yours does, then you are going to question it. Jesus builds is body by the good news and upon his sayings. Anyone who builds their lives upon his sayings is never going to be missing the mark. You got your nickers in a twist over me saying to you that you must be blind and in denial if you could not see that the mystery hidden through the ages and generations is Christ in you, but you say the exact same thing about all who are not in agreement with you, but in a more subtle way.
If that is the case then it would say that?
So when it says looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, you are saying Jesus here is the Bible.
The bible is Jesus' (God's) word. I see God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the word as interchangeable. For example, you say the Holy Spirit is in you. I agree but I would suggest they are all in you because they all are in agreement.
God in you: 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
Jesus in you: Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
Holy Spirit: You know
The word: 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
I believe God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit abide in us because we have His word in us. Here we can see that Jesus and His word are interchangeable.
Jn 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Jn. 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
How are we saved? By the word(gospel) we believe: Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
There are more verses I could point out but hope this gets my point across.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
How do I look to and be guided by the Spirit ? By the Peace that is associated with it.
Here is my experience with a man who was "guided" by the Holy Spirit. Their church congregation was looking to appoint a deacon. The candidate was married but had no children and the "Spirit" guided them to appoint the man because he was a "good" man.
I found it most disturbing. There is ZERO question that the Holy Spirit guided Paul in giving the qualifications for deacons. One of the qualifications is having children in order to see how he manages them and the household. 12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
What am I to believe? Either the Holy Spirit is the author of confusion or they "thought" they were lead by the Holy Spirit. The later is the only one that makes sense.
The bible is Jesus' (God's) word. I see God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the word as interchangeable. For example, you say the Holy Spirit is in you. I agree but I would suggest they are all in you because they all are in agreement.
God in you: 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
Jesus in you: Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
Holy Spirit: You know
The word: 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
I believe God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit abide in us because we have His word in us. Here we can see that Jesus and His word are interchangeable.
Jn 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Jn. 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
How are we saved? By the word(gospel) we believe: Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
There are more verses I could point out but hope this gets my point across.
Here is my experience with a man who was "guided" by the Holy Spirit. Their church congregation was looking to appoint a deacon. The candidate was married but had no children and the "Spirit" guided them to appoint the man because he was a "good" man.
I found it most disturbing. There is ZERO question that the Holy Spirit guided Paul in giving the qualifications for deacons. One of the qualifications is having children in order to see how he manages them and the household. 12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
What am I to believe? Either the Holy Spirit is the author of confusion or they "thought" they were lead by the Holy Spirit. The later is the only one that makes sense.
Do you know how many stories I have about men(including myself) saying they are guided by the Bible that got it completely wrong?
The Holy Spirit was there when the letters, gospels, were composed by the various scribes, and was also there over the past 2000 years as the church was developing into the many membered body it is has turned into today, and is still working as promised to the end of the age
Christianity today is in so many pieces. I don't see anyway possible that the Holy Spirit has done this. One group says white and another says black. Especially on the most important topic of HOW one is added to Chris's church. I believe the Holy Spirit guided the writers of the bible and that is how we have the Holy Spirit till the end of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2
I disagree with Kate that Holy Spirit was only active in creating the NT though, and was not at work in the successive generations afterwards, the Holy Spirit was to be with the church till the end of the age, to guide the sons and sons of sons in each generation
The Great Commission
Mat 28:16**Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17**And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18**And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19**Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20**Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
The great commission was to the 11. They were the ones that lead us into the church age.
Jn. 14:25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Heb. 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard,
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
There is no need for the Holy Spirit to guide individuals today other than by the inspired word. The word has been revealed by the Holy Spirit and is forever unchanging. Today, the "Holy Spirit" guiding individuals is why we have the multiple divisions we have. 10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
That is very similar to my way of thinking turbo, I do not like to fight or debate but we can certainly be drawn into it, it takes self control to resist it or acknowledge when we have ‘fallen’ and we are all human and fallible
I like to debate. If we do it with the right mind set it causes us to think and challenges our understanding. I will go back and forth if it's done using logic and respectfully.
Do you know how many stories I have about men(including myself) saying they are guided by the Bible that got it completely wrong?
You can include me in that list as well. That's why we have to work at it and mature.
10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
It seems to me that if we are guided by the Holy Spirit within us, that list is unnecessary. Also, there would be no confusion because the Holy Spirit would never guide us in the wrong direction.
How do we mature? 2 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
I like to debate. If we do it with the right mind set it causes us to think and challenges our understanding. I will go back and forth if it's done using logic and respectfully.
And that is the way it should be
We each have our own abilities and capabilities by initial design
I have always been a reader, thinker, and I compare things (I am not a debater, I naturally like peace but that is not something we are promised however)
Our natural abilities are used by the spirit and it is up to us to recognise where we fit so to speak, in relation to the above and also to those alongside us, and those beneath us if we are part of a community where there is a hierarchy at work, each of us doing our bit
We each have our own abilities and capabilities by initial design
I have always been a reader, thinker, and I compare things (I am not a debater, I naturally like peace but that is not something we are promised however)
Our natural abilities are used by the spirit and it is up to us to recognise where we fit so to speak, in relation to the above and also to those alongside us, and those beneath us if we are part of a community where there is a hierarchy at work
Christianity today is in so many pieces. I don't see anyway possible that the Holy Spirit has done this. One group says white and another says black. Especially on the most important topic of HOW one is added to Chris's church. I believe the Holy Spirit guided the writers of the bible and that is how we have the Holy Spirit till the end of time.
The great commission was to the 11. They were the ones that lead us into the church age.
Jn. 14:25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Heb. 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard,
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
There is no need for the Holy Spirit to guide individuals today other than by the inspired word. The word has been revealed by the Holy Spirit and is forever unchanging. Today, the "Holy Spirit" guiding individuals is why we have the multiple divisions we have. 10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
It goes back to initial design and also Paul telling the church that this would happen to it
Gen 1:27**So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28**And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1Co 9:19**For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20**And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21**To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22**To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23**And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1Co 9:24**Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25**And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26**I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27**But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
The Scriptures are multi-level and have timing embedded in them that has been referred to over the past 2000 years to fulfill them
And there is a constant battle/strife between the systems and the individuals under the systems by design - that is the spirit against the flesh referred to in Galatians
The systems tending to build themselves up and then a need to break down the unnecessary things
You can include me in that list as well. That's why we have to work at it and mature.
10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
It seems to me that if we are guided by the Holy Spirit within us, that list is unnecessary. Also, there would be no confusion because the Holy Spirit would never guide us in the wrong direction.
How do we mature? 2 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
For the Christian, Jesus made it perfectly clear what kind of mind we need to have in order to be guided by the Holy Spirit (Comforter). It is not rocket science or a mystery. You cannot be guided by the Holy Spirit when in any other states of mind, especially those that are OPPOSITE to these.
Philippians 2:5-30 King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
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