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I answered the spirit of what you were posting with the correct Spirit.
If you have any disagreements, by all means express them and we will go from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
I think that if you read Romans 4:2 you might see that Abraham was indeed justified by works; but only before man.
The rest of Romans 4 bears out that before God, Abraham was justified through faith apart from works.
We are not regenerated or renewed by giving $5 to the poor, or even by giving $5,000,000 to the poor.
That is only accomplished through faith (apart from works) in Jesus' shed blood.
Whatever you want to add to faith so that it is not alone, fill in the blank below, but it should be clear that you cannot add works to that equation (Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 11:5-6).
The Bible teaches that those who are being saved are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). It does not, however, teach that a person is saved by “faith alone” without any further acts of obedience. Even Martin Luther recognized that water baptism is not a meritorious work that earns a persons salvation. On the other hand it is it is an obedient act required by God in order for people to obtain salvation.
The Bible teaches that those who are being saved are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). It does not, however, teach that a person is saved by “faith alone” without any further acts of obedience. Even Martin Luther recognized that water baptism is not a meritorious work that earns a persons salvation. On the other hand it is it is an obedient act required by God in order for people to obtain salvation.
you put in 'the book ends' because 'of knowledge" you 'saved' from faith to hope, from hope to agape...
"12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."
The Bible teaches that those who are being saved are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). It does not, however, teach that a person is saved by “faith alone” without any further acts of obedience. Even Martin Luther recognized that water baptism is not a meritorious work that earns a person's salvation. On the other hand, it is it is an obedient act required by God in order for people to obtain salvation.
Ephesians 2:8–9 does not specify ONLY those who are being saved, It refers to all of us. The perfect Grace of Jesus (God incarnate as a human) is what has saved us and it is finished. Our faith is justified BECAUSE it is TRUE! not because of anything we do or do not do.
We can NOT choose what we believe but we can choose to have faith that it is true, hope for our fate, and love of God and each other as a result. But of the three, agape love is the most important.
The Bible teaches that those who are being saved are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). It does not, however, teach that a person is saved by “faith alone” without any further acts of obedience. Even Martin Luther recognized that water baptism is not a meritorious work that earns a persons salvation. On the other hand it is it is an obedient act required by God in order for people to obtain salvation.
"Act of obedience" would qualify as works; and we are not saved by works.
Even with Acts 2:38 salvation, the person is not saved by the act of being submerged in water but through their faith in the operation of God (Colossians 2:12, Ephesians 1:13-14) as baptism in Jesus' Name is a point of contact for faith. So that by believing in the conditional promise of Acts 2:38-39 (in fulfilling the condition), faith in the promise procures the Holy Ghost for the believer who has doubts.
Because it is also true that a person can obtain the Holy Ghost merely by asking (Luke 11:9-13).
"Act of obedience" would qualify as works; and we are not saved by works.
Even with Acts 2:38 salvation, the person is not saved by the act of being submerged in water but through their faith in the operation of God (Colossians 2:12, Ephesians 1:13-14) as baptism in Jesus' Name is a point of contact for faith. So that by believing in the conditional promise of Acts 2:38-39 (in fulfilling the condition), faith in the promise procures the Holy Ghost for the believer who has doubts.
Because it is also true that a person can obtain the Holy Ghost merely by asking (Luke 11:9-13).
*For the believer who has doubts about receiving the Holy Ghost apart from baptism in Jesus' Name*
"Act of obedience" would qualify as works; and we are not saved by works.
Even with Acts 2:38 salvation, the person is not saved by the act of being submerged in water but through their faith in the operation of God (Colossians 2:12, Ephesians 1:13-14) as baptism in Jesus' Name is a point of contact for faith. So that by believing in the conditional promise of Acts 2:38-39 (in fulfilling the condition), faith in the promise procures the Holy Ghost for the believer who has doubts.
Because it is also true that a person can obtain the Holy Ghost merely by asking (Luke 11:9-13).
Am I reading you correctly? Are you saying that obedience is NOT necessary for salvation because obedience is “works?” If so, then…
Please explain the bolded part of 2 Thessalonians 1:8.
He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
Can you explain the bolded part of 1 Peter 4:17?
For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Can you explain the bolded parts of Romans 2:8?
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good,to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
And 1 Peter 1:22?
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.
Last edited by MissKate12; 03-28-2022 at 07:46 AM..
Am I reading you correctly? Are you saying that obedience is NOT necessary for salvation because obedience is “works?” If so, then…
Please explain the bolded part of 2 Thessalonians 1:8.
He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
Can you explain the bolded part of 1 Peter 4:17?
For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Can you explain the bolded parts of Romans 2:8?
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good,to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
And 1 Peter 1:22?
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.
We are saved by faith alone in Jesus Christ...
We receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 1:13-14).
Then, through the Holy Ghost, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5). This is the result of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone; and it is salvation.
Those who have the love of God shed abroad in their hearts are obedient Christians (1 John 3:17-18).
Therefore, it is almost the sure sign that they have not been regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost if they are disobedient.
This is different than if they fail to be obedient.
Disobedience is willful sin.
Failure to be obedient has to do more with weakness and inability (see Matthew 26:41).
If someone fails to be obedient, they may indeed still be saved if they have faith in Jesus Christ.
Therefore they do not lose their salvation over the lack of a work.
But if a person is saved through obedience, then they must be obedient to the whole law from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).
And therefore if they lack one work, it would disqualify them from salvation.
While if a person is not saved by works but through faith alone in Jesus Christ, their salvation is not dependent on maintaining good works but they are saved by grace through faith.
And the fact that they have faith means that they are regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost.
Which means that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in their hearts.
Thus the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in them (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6)
However, that righteousness does not save them; but they are saved by grace through faith unto righteousness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
To the eleven, Jesus said,
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,…” (Matthew 28:19)
Are you suggesting it is wrong to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? Was Jesus wrong?
“In the name of” simply means by the authority of.
Likewise, I would ask you, Was Peter being disobedient to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 when he baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ in Acts 2:38?
We receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 1:13-14).
Then, through the Holy Ghost, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5). This is the result of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone; and it is salvation.
Those who have the love of God shed abroad in their hearts are obedient Christians (1 John 3:17-18).
Therefore, it is almost the sure sign that they have not been regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost if they are disobedient.
This is different than if they fail to be obedient.
Disobedience is willful sin.
Failure to be obedient has to do more with weakness and inability (see Matthew 26:41).
If someone fails to be obedient, they may indeed still be saved if they have faith in Jesus Christ.
Therefore they do not lose their salvation over the lack of a work.
But if a person is saved through obedience, then they must be obedient to the whole law from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).
And therefore if they lack one work, it would disqualify them from salvation.
While if a person is not saved by works but through faith alone in Jesus Christ, their salvation is not dependent on maintaining good works but they are saved by grace through faith.
And the fact that they have faith means that they are regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost.
Which means that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in their hearts.
Thus the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in them (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6)
However, that righteousness does not save them; but they are saved by grace through faith unto righteousness.
Likewise, I would ask you, Was Peter being disobedient to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 when he baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ in Acts 2:38?
You very carefully avoided answering my post. How about explaining how one cannot be saved unless they OBEY the gospel.
Please explain the bolded part of 2 Thessalonians 1:8.
He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
Can you explain the bolded part of 1 Peter 4:17?
For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Can you explain the bolded parts of Romans 2:8?
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth,but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good,to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
And 1 Peter 1:22?
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.
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