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Likewise, I would ask you, Was Peter being disobedient to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 when he baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ in Acts 2:38?[/QUOTE]
Again, you blew off my post.
Me: To the eleven, Jesus said,
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,…” (Matthew 28:19)
Are you suggesting it is wrong to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? Was Jesus wrong?”
You answered my question with a question.
You wrote: “In the name of” simply means by the authority of.
Likewise, I would ask you, Was Peter being disobedient to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 when he baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ in Acts 2:38?
So I’ll ask you again. Are you suggesting it is wrong to baptize In the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit? Yes? No?
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,…” (Matthew 28:19)
Are you suggesting it is wrong to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? Was Jesus wrong?”
You answered my question with a question.
You wrote: “In the name of” simply means by the authority of.
Likewise, I would ask you, Was Peter being disobedient to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 when he baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ in Acts 2:38?
So I’ll ask you again. Are you suggesting it is wrong to baptize In the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit? Yes? No?
I will say that if baptism saves (and there is a distinct possibility that it does, John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:20-21), then it saves not in the formula of titles but in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Acts 4:10,12).
You very carefully avoided answering my post. How about explaining how one cannot be saved unless they OBEY the gospel.
Please explain the bolded part of 2 Thessalonians 1:8.
He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
Can you explain the bolded part of 1 Peter 4:17?
For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Can you explain the bolded parts of Romans 2:8?
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth,but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good,to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
And 1 Peter 1:22?
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.
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How does one obey the gospel of Jesus Christ except to believe in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross?
Do you suggest that a person must be obedient to the Sermon on the Mount in order to obey the gospel?
I will say that if that is the case, then perfect obedience from conception into eternity is required (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).
Faith is something that impaho cleanses the inside of the cup and platter.
So, if someone has faith alone in Jesus Christ alone, they will be regenerated and renewed on the inside and thus the outside of the cup and platter will also be clean.
How does one obey the gospel of Jesus Christ except to believe in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross?
Do you suggest that a person must be obedient to the Sermon on the Mount in order to obey the gospel?
I will say that if that is the case, then perfect obedience from conception into eternity is required (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).
Faith is something that impaho cleanses the inside of the cup and platter.
So, if someone has faith alone in Jesus Christ alone, they will be regenerated and renewed on the inside and thus the outside of the cup and platter will also be clean.
AGAIN you answered my question with questions. Are you incapable of giving a straightforward yes or no answer?
In your post #395, you stated that “obedience is works.”
I’ll ask you once again, can one be saved without obeying the gospel? I’m asking you in light of the four Scriptures I posted to you (2 Thessalonians 1:8, 1 Peter 4:17, Romans 2:8, 1 Peter 1:22). Is obedience to the gospel necessary for salvation? Yes or no? No explanations necessary. Just a straight up Yes or no. Thank you!
I will say that if baptism saves (and there is a distinct possibility that it does, John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:20-21), then it saves not in the formula of titles but in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Acts 4:10,12).
You didn’t answer my question. Is it wrong to baptize In the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit? Yes or no. Straightforward answer would be appreciated.
For the record, I have no problem with either. We can discuss the reasons in another thread. I agree that baptism (immersion in water) saves by the blood of Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8–9 does not specify ONLY those who are being saved, It refers to all of us. The perfect Grace of Jesus (God incarnate as a human) is what has saved us and it is finished. Our faith is justified BECAUSE it is TRUE! not because of anything we do or do not do.
We can NOT choose what we believe but we can choose to have faith that it is true, hope for our fate, and love of God and each other as a result. But of the three, agape love is the most important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval
you put in 'the book ends' because 'of knowledge" you 'saved' from faith to hope, from hope to agape...
"12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."
Faith, Hope, and Agape Love are important to God and our spiritual life because we actually can control and choose what we have faith in, what we hope for, and for whom we have agape love. I think I will start a thread about them because they are so important.
AGAIN you answered my question with questions. Are you incapable of giving a straightforward yes or no answer?
In your post #395, you stated that “obedience is works.”
I’ll ask you once again, can one be saved without obeying the gospel? I’m asking you in light of the four Scriptures I posted to you (2 Thessalonians 1:8, 1 Peter 4:17, Romans 2:8, 1 Peter 1:22). Is obedience to the gospel necessary for salvation? Yes or no? No explanations necessary. Just a straight up Yes or no. Thank you!
Yes, obedience to the gospel is necessary for salvation.
(and I'm afraid that an explanation is necessary)...
For I define obedience to the gospel as believing in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross.
Whereas obedience in the sense of obeying commandments is works, obedience in the sense of believing in Jesus is not works, although it will most assuredly result in works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
You didn’t answer my question. Is it wrong to baptize In the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit? Yes or no. Straightforward answer would be appreciated.
For the record, I have no problem with either. We can discuss the reasons in another thread. I agree that baptism (immersion in water) saves by the blood of Jesus.
I don't have an answer for you as to whether it is wrong to baptize in titles.
I will only say that if baptism saves, it does not save in the formula of titles but in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 4:10,12).
So, you can baptize in the formula of titles and it may not even be wrong to do so; however don't expect baptism in the formula of titles to save anyone.
I will say that it is right to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins; for baptism in the name of Jesus does have the power to save.
Yes, obedience to the gospel is necessary for salvation.
(and I'm afraid that an explanation is necessary)...
For I define obedience to the gospel as believing in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross.
Whereas obedience in the sense of obeying commandments is works, obedience in the sense of believing in Jesus is not works, although it will most assuredly result in works.
I don't have an answer for you as to whether it is wrong to baptize in titles.
I will only say that if baptism saves, it does not save in the formula of titles but in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 4:10,12).
So, you can baptize in the formula of titles and it may not even be wrong to do so; however don't expect baptism in the formula of titles to save anyone.
I will say that it is right to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins; for baptism in the name of Jesus does have the power to save.
Thank you for finally answering my question. When you wrote in your post #395 that obedience is works, that was incorrect. I’m happy that you see obedience is indeed necessary for salvation. For we must obey the gospel.
The question now becomes what is this gospel we must obey. I’m not sure how you conclude that it is simply belief. What Scriptures says that? How do the Scriptures define the gospel of Jesus?
Paul defines the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
“1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,…”
How do we obey the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus?
Imho, we must first believe the gospel and then respond to it by turning away from our sins and turn to God. We must confess Him before men and be baptized for the remission of our sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
I base my opinion on Acts 2:37-38:
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
And Acts 2:41, 47
“41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
“47 And God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
Belief, repentance, confession and baptism - requirements for the forgiveness of sins, to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and for entrance into the Lord’s church. Salvation!
Works? No. Responses to belief? Absolutely!
Belief alone? No way! Without those responses, we would be no better than the demons who believe.
Last edited by MissKate12; 03-30-2022 at 05:36 AM..
=justbyfaith;63176558
I don't have an answer for you as to whether it is wrong to baptize in titles.
I will only say that if baptism saves, it does not save in the formula of titles but in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 4:10,12).
So, you can baptize in the formula of titles and it may not even be wrong to do so; however don't expect baptism in the formula of titles to save anyone.
I will say that it is right to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins; for baptism in the name of Jesus does have the power to save.
Why are you hesitant to say it is right or wrong to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. After all, Jesus said it. Are you affiliated with Oneness Pentecostals?
I could care less about formulas and titles. I can only go by what the Scriptures say. In the case of Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. In Acts 2:38, Peter commands baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Therefore, both are correct since Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.
Imho, either is acceptable, and to insist that it be one way or the other is divisive and denominationally minded.
Thank you for finally answering my question. When you wrote in your post #395 that obedience is works, that was incorrect. I’m happy that you see obedience is indeed necessary for salvation. For we must obey the gospel.
The question now becomes what is this gospel we must obey. I’m not sure how you conclude that it is simply belief. What Scriptures says that? How do the Scriptures define the gospel of Jesus?
John 5:24, John 6:47; John 3:16, Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8-9, etc.
Quote:
Paul defines the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
“1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,…”
How do we obey the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus?
Imho, we must first believe the gospel and then respond to it by turning away from our sins and turn to God. We must confess Him before men and be baptized for the remission of our sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
I base my opinion on Acts 2:37-38:
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
And Acts 2:41, 47
“41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
“47 And God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
Belief, repentance, confession and baptism - requirements for the forgiveness of sins, to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and for entrance into the Lord’s church. Salvation!
Works? No. Responses to belief? Absolutely!
Belief alone? No way! Without those responses, we would be no better than the demons who believe.
My understanding is that baptism in Jesus' Name is a point of contact for faith. In fulfilling the condition of a conditional promise (in Acts 2:38-39), one is able to lay a hold of the promise.
In this, it is indeed still faith alone that saves the man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Why are you hesitant to say it is right or wrong to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. After all, Jesus said it. Are you affiliated with Oneness Pentecostals?
I could care less about formulas and titles. I can only go by what the Scriptures say. In the case of Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. In Acts 2:38, Peter commands baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Therefore, both are correct since Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.
Imho, either is acceptable, and to insist that it be one way or the other is divisive and denominationally minded.
God sees the heart!
It should be clear that God's name is Jesus Christ of Nazareth and that this is the name of the Father even of the Son even of the Holy Ghost.
If, in baptizing someone in "the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost" (titles), you understand that the name that you are baptizing in is the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, then that baptism may in fact be valid (while I do not see any guarantee that it is valid).
Because if baptism saves, then it is baptism in "the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth" that saves (see Acts 4:10,12) and baptizing in titles won't cut it; while there is the possibility that it may cut it if in baptizing according to Matthew 28:19 you understand that the name of the Father even of the Son even of the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ.
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