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Old 05-17-2022, 11:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I don't mean to derail a "Happy easter" thread. But easter is over so I think rather than start a new thread I'll just ask the question here:

According to Luke 24:39 Jesus was raised in a physical body

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

But in 1 Corinthians 15:44 it says:

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body."

So question: was Jesus raised in a physical body or a spiritual body?
Jesus was raised in a physical body (John 2:19-21).

Those who deny that He is come in the flesh have the spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

He said that He would again drink of the fruit of the vine when He would come into His kingdom.

After He resurrected, He ate a piece of broiled fish and honeycomb.

That would indicate a physical resurrected body to me.
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
Jesus was raised in a physical body (John 2:19-21).

Those who deny that He is come in the flesh have the spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

He said that He would again drink of the fruit of the vine when He would come into His kingdom.

After He resurrected, He ate a piece of broiled fish and honeycomb.

That would indicate a physical resurrected body to me.

But what about 1 Corinthians 15? It says believers in Christ will be raised in spiritual bodies, not physical and it says Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection. So as Jesus was raised, all believers in him will be raised likewise, but Jesus was raised in a physical body so all believers must be raised in a physical body, but that contradicts Paul.
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Alabama
13,624 posts, read 7,942,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I don't mean to derail a "Happy easter" thread. But easter is over so I think rather than start a new thread I'll just ask the question here:

According to Luke 24:39 Jesus was raised in a physical body

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

But in 1 Corinthians 15:44 it says:

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body."

So question: was Jesus raised in a physical body or a spiritual body?
Easter is not over. We are only in the 5th week of it with nearly 3 weeks to go.

The answer to your question, using Paul's terminology, is "both".
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
Easter is not over. We are only in the 5th week of it with nearly 3 weeks to go.

The answer to your question, using Paul's terminology, is "both".

Jesus was raised in a spiritual AND physical body? Then why did Paul make a distinction?
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
But what about 1 Corinthians 15? It says believers in Christ will be raised in spiritual bodies, not physical and it says Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection. So as Jesus was raised, all believers in him will be raised likewise, but Jesus was raised in a physical body so all believers must be raised in a physical body, but that contradicts Paul.
As for 1 Corinthians 15:44, Fr. Callan said it best in his commentary:

"Our present bodies are called 'natural,' or 'animal,' because they are subject to the laws and conditions of animal life, such as vegetation, generation, nutrition and the like; but after the resurrection they will no longer need these material aids that serve a present and temporary purpose. Then they shall be spiritual, i.e., entirely subject to the needs and wishes of the glorified soul. This does not mean that the risen body ceases to be material, but that it is freed from those conditions and functions which serve only a temporal end and which make it the imperfect instrument of the glorified spirit. The endowment by which the body thus partakes of the nature of the soul, while not losing its material character, is called the gift of subtility."

See the term subtility.
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:37 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,232 posts, read 26,455,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I don't mean to derail a "Happy easter" thread. But easter is over so I think rather than start a new thread I'll just ask the question here:

According to Luke 24:39 Jesus was raised in a physical body

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

But in 1 Corinthians 15:44 it says:

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body."

So question: was Jesus raised in a physical body or a spiritual body?
I do not believe the argument that by a 'spiritual' body Paul meant a non-physical 'spirit body,' but rather, that by 'spiritual' body Paul simply meant a glorified, incorruptible and immortal (not immoral. . .the 'T' makes all the difference. ) body.

Paul's wording demonstrates continuity between the body that died and the body which is raised, as for example in 1 Cor. 15:42. The mortal body which dies is raised as a body with different characteristics which it did not have before being resurrected. But it is not raised as a different body which had no continuity with the body which died. As with Jesus, so with all who are to be raised in Christ according to the Bible.
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
I do not believe the argument that by a 'spiritual' body Paul meant a non-physical 'spirit body,' but rather, that by 'spiritual' body Paul simply meant a glorified, incorruptible and immortal (not immoral. . .the 'T' makes all the difference. ) body.

Paul's wording demonstrates continuity between the body that died and the body which is raised, as for example in 1 Cor. 15:42. The mortal body which dies is raised as a body with different characteristics which it did not have before being resurrected. But it is not raised as a different body which had no continuity with the body which died. As with Jesus, so with all who are to be raised in Christ according to the Bible.

They are raised as a material body with a spirit in them?
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Old 05-17-2022, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
They are raised as a material body with a spirit in them?
Our "spirit" or "soul" is just the word we use for our consciousness or the invisible animating force that makes us alive. So yes, our "spirit" or "soul" will be rejoined with our resurrected material body.
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Old 05-17-2022, 01:09 PM
 
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Thrill, There can be no reasoning with those who are so thoroughly conditioned and in love with our physical body. They can not imagine life without a physical body because they have no referents for such a thing. This is why Jesus and Paul had so much difficulty communicating spiritual things to our ancestors who were even less capable and were terrified of Spirits.

If Jesus had not provided the illusion of a physical body, He would have been completely rejected as a Spirit even by His disciples! He did appear through closed doors leaving the clue for future generations. I found the movie "Shallow Hall" actually makes the concept of our spiritual body visual and more accessible.
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Old 05-17-2022, 01:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
But what about 1 Corinthians 15? It says believers in Christ will be raised in spiritual bodies, not physical and it says Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection. So as Jesus was raised, all believers in him will be raised likewise, but Jesus was raised in a physical body so all believers must be raised in a physical body, but that contradicts Paul.
Spiritual bodies may also be physical.

Remember, Jesus ate of broiled fish and honeycomb after He was raised from the dead (Luke 24:42-43).

And He said that He would not drink of the fruit of the vine until He would drink it new with us in His Father's kingdom.
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