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It is understandable that some Christians find the various denominations lacking and seek to rise above it or in some other way separate themselves from it. But I see it as an exercise in futility. What does one prove by making themselves a "denomination of one"? It is no different than choosing from the smorgasbord of denominations that are out there, except that you have to do your own "cooking" and you don't have to deal with Other People in terms of governance. But you also don't have accountability or responsibility. It's a fool's errand IMO to try to preserve theism by some misguided attempt to "return to a primitive Christianity" or some such (something that, BTW, did not really exist in anything like the form people imagine). That's one reason why I'm no longer a theist. YMMV.
Jesus lived on earth in the Old Testament dispensation.
Uh... would you mind clarifying that? I actually believe that the individual known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament was the same individual known as Jehovah in the Old Testament, but Jesus wasn't born until around 6 BC to 4 BC, so why are you saying that He lived on the earth in the Old Testament dispensation?
Uh... would you mind clarifying that? I actually believe that the individual known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament was the same individual known as Jehovah in the Old Testament, but Jesus wasn't born until around 6 BC to 4 BC, so why are you saying that He lived on the earth in the Old Testament dispensation?
I'm guessing that he's a dispensationalist. A dispensation is defined as an "economy" or "contract" god makes with man during a specific period. Until Jesus was crucified and resurrected, he lived under the Dispensation of Law, and not the Dispensation of Grace. That's an oversimplification (there are dispensationalists who believe in different numbers of dispensations, although seven is the most common) but should give you the gist of his thinking.
And what about the doctrine of the Trinity as a "deeply-entrenched tradition." Do you seriously believe that the Christians of Jesus' day understood the nature of God as it is described in the 4th- and 5th-century creeds?
Good question. Thanks for raising it.
I don’t use the term “trinity,” however, I believe Father, Son and Hily Spirit are one God. I believe the Scriptures teach that, but that’s a topic for another thread.
My only creed is the Bible. I’m not really familiar with the various creeds.
Did the people of Jesus day understand the nature of God? I have no way of knowing what they did or did not understand.
I'm guessing that he's a dispensationalist. A dispensation is defined as an "economy" or "contract" god makes with man during a specific period. Until Jesus was crucified and resurrected, he lived under the Dispensation of Law, and not the Dispensation of Grace. That's an oversimplification (there are dispensationalists who believe in different numbers of dispensations, although seven is the most common) but should give you the gist of his thinking.
Okay, but wouldn't that mean that the Jesus who lived in Old Testament times at some point died and was reborn in New Testament times? I've never heard of that before.
I don’t use the term “trinity,” however, I believe Father, Son and Hily Spirit are one God. I believe the Scriptures teach that, but that’s a topic for another thread.
My only creed is the Bible. I’m not really familiar with the various creeds.
Did the people of Jesus day understand the nature of God? I have no way of knowing what they did or did not understand.
Thanks, Kate. Fair enough. I believe everything the New Testament says about the nature of God and the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, including that they are one God. So long as you don't base your understanding of who they are on the creeds, we're on the same page.
Uh... would you mind clarifying that? I actually believe that the individual known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament was the same individual known as Jehovah in the Old Testament, but Jesus wasn't born until around 6 BC to 4 BC, so why are you saying that He lived on the earth in the Old Testament dispensation?
This is one thing we totally agree on. Jesus is Jehovah! Amen!
As for when exactly Jesus was born, I’m not sure. I’ve read different views, but it’s all speculation. We do know for sure that Jesus was born and died under the Old Law.
Thanks, Kate. Fair enough. I believe everything the New Testament says about the nature of God and the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, including that they are one God. So long as you don't base your understanding of who they are on the creeds, we're on the same page.
Okay, but wouldn't that mean that the Jesus who lived in Old Testament times at some point died and was reborn in New Testament times? I've never heard of that before.
Dispensations describe what god expects of humans at a particular time. In the dispensation of law god expects you to fulfill the law in all respects. Jesus is said to have fulfilled that, so yes after he was resurrected, god had a different expectation ... trust in Jesus' finished work of salvation.
Or that is how it is taught anyway.
Mind you this is a teaching of some evangelical Christians, it is not universal. Most Christians are content with just an OT/NT dichotomy ... dispensationalism is really just a way to try to understand why god seems to deal with humans differently at different times (or as some point out, that the Bible is a patchwork of different books by different people and there is conflict on some points, let's just say).
In extreme versions of dispensationalism (hyperdispensationalism) the only part of the NT that is accepted as applicable to today (in much the same way that Christians don't follow, e.g., Jewish dietary rules) are the writings of Paul. So it can get pretty, um, interesting, taken to extremes.
This is one thing we totally agree on. Jesus is Jehovah! Amen!
Hmmm. Not so fast. I have a feeling I may have misled you. I believe that Jesus is Jehovah, but I don't believe that God the Father is Jehovah, too. I'm not sure that we even know His name, but I refer to Him as Elohim.
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As for when exactly Jesus was born, I’m not sure. I’ve read different views, but it’s all speculation. We do know for sure that Jesus was born and died under the Old Law.
I don't think anybody's sure. That's just what New Testament scholarship has suggested as being the approximate date of His birth.
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