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twin.spin: How much time elapsed between Jesus' prediction in Matthew 16:28 and His ascension?
Why does Jesus have to come on literal clouds?
1. Approx. 40 years.
2. Because he said he would.
With the average lifespan @70ad was approx 40-42yrs, there was plenty of time to have most die for some yet to be alive.
Its, again, not me about "adjust[ing] the time indicators to fit that perception" The earth will end when the sun ect....., whenever that happens. "Every eye" should have just as much clarity to you as "this" "that". And should be taken as written.....Every eye means from Adam to the very last person that should come to faith on the "face" of the world and all those living at that time.
Getting back to those questions, I'm not sure if you understood the point odf the question; when will your body be reunited with your soul? What circumstance makes it possible?
1. Approx. 40 years.
2. Because he said he would.
With the average lifespan @70ad was approx 40-42yrs, there was plenty of time to have most die for some yet to be alive.
Its, again, not me about "adjust[ing] the time indicators to fit that perception" The earth will end when the sun ect....., whenever that happens. "Every eye" should have just as much clarity to you as "this" "that". And should be taken as written.....Every eye means from Adam to the very last person that should come to faith on the "face" of the world and all those living at that time.
Getting back to those questions, I'm not sure if you understood the point odf the question; when will your body be reunited with your soul? What circumstance makes it possible?
twin
twin: There were 40 YEARS between Jesus' death and His ascension? It is a common belief that the ascension took place 40 DAYS after His resurrection. Definitely, not enough time for most of those with Him in the context of Matthew 16:28 to die! He clearly said that some of those very people standing right there with Him would not die before He came.
But you are right about the forty years in the respect that He did come after forty years--A. D. 70. And that is plenty of time, especially considering the volatile days in which they lived, for most of them to die!
With regard to every, you are correct to hold me to the same standard I use with others words. But, again, words must be seen in their contexts!
I am not being inconsistent as you claim. Every "this" and every "that" and every "all" and every "every" must be taken within the context! I have done that.
I cannot say this enough apparently but John was given the clear time restraints in both the first and last chapters of the Revelation. That in itself limits the concept of "every." The "every eye" is confined to that time frame of those things which were to shortly take place because the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10).
There are further restrictive clues in the verse itself (Rev. 1:7). "Behold, He is coming with clouds." This is typical apocalyptic language found many times in the OT of God's coming in judgment against a nation or people. These clouds are present in Matthew 24:30--the time frame there being restricted by Matthew 24:34 ("this generation"). Clouds are mentioned in Jesus' prophetic words to Caiaphas--Caiaphas himself, part of the "tribes of the land" mentioned in Revelation 1:7, was to see Him "coming on the clouds of heaven" (Mat. 26:64).
In Revelation 1:7 we see "they who pierced Him" and "all the tribes of the land." These, along with the time restraints John clearly established, put definite restrictions on the word "every." I offer this illustration again--If my daughter goes to a church function and I ask her when she returns home, "who was there?" and she replies "Everyone was there," do I think that everyone everywhere throughout all time was there? Of course not! The every is restricted by the context. When John the Baptist began preaching the "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" (Luke 3:3), he quoted Isaiah the prophet predicting his day. Isaiah said it would be a time when "every" valley would be filled and every mountain and hill would be brought low (Isaiah 40:3-5). Was EVERY valley filled and EVERY mountain and hill brought low?
In Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost it is said that "everyone" heard them [the disciples] speak in his own language. Did everyone everywhere throughout all time hear them? The context confines the term "everyone." When the apostles were beaten by the Jews for preaching in the name of Jesus (Acts 6), they did not cease but continued to do so daily "in the temple, and in every house." Every house everywhere, or every house in Jerusalem, or every house in all of Israel, or every house in which they were accustomed to preach? The context defines the "every."
The "every eye" in Revelation is clearly confined to the time of those who pierced Him and is further restricted to the Jewish nation ("the TRIBES of the LAND") which existed in the time that was then to SHORTLY take place! Adam is not there and you and I are not there!
When will my body be reunited with my soul--it won't! Ever! That which is "natural" returns to the dust form whence it came. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Again, Paul was not teaching the popping up of bodies out of the graves! (1 Cor. 15).
Back to my question, the point of which I'm not sure you understood. What is the connection between Matthew 16:27 and 16:28? Jesus said how He would come and then He said when!
I am not being inconsistent as you claim. Every "this" and every "that" and every "all" and every "every" must be taken within the context! I have done that.
Yes there was 40 days between Jesus' death and Ascension and approx 40 years between the Ascension and the destruction of Jerusalem.
Preterist quote: "When will my body be reunited with my soul--it won't! Ever!"
Then your faith is usless and the our words to you are as well.
"But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
I thank you for the exchange. I know now what Preterism is (if preterism is defined by your posts). Spiritually, we have nothing in common.
Yes there was 40 days between Jesus' death and Ascension and approx 40 years between the Ascension and the destruction of Jerusalem.
Preterist quote: "When will my body be reunited with my soul--it won't! Ever!"
Then your faith is usless and the our words to you are as well.
"But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
I thank you for the exchange. I know now what Preterism is (if preterism is defined by your posts). Spiritually, we have nothing in common.
Exactly. It takes a great person of God to continue the debate until the truth finally comes out, because it will. And here it is.
Yes there was 40 days between Jesus' death and Ascension and approx 40 years between the Ascension and the destruction of Jerusalem.
Preterist quote: "When will my body be reunited with my soul--it won't! Ever!"
Then your faith is usless and the our words to you are as well.
"But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
I thank you for the exchange. I know now what Preterism is (if preterism is defined by your posts). Spiritually, we have nothing in common.
Why do you use 1 Corinthians 15 against me? I have NEVER NEVER NEVER denied the resurrection. What I do deny is YOUR concept of it (e.g. decayed bodies popping up out of their graves!). What is this passage saying? What was the significance of Christ's resurrection? Was it not to fully establish our liberty from the penalty of sin? Paul is saying that IF Christ did not rise from the dead as proof of the acceptance by the Father of His sacrifice, then we are all still in our sins!
Do we all die LIKE Adam or do we all die IN Adam? This is not speaking of physical death and physical resurrection. IN Adam ALL die spiritually; IN Christ ALL [who believe and are truly IN Christ] are made alive--spiritually! Jesus rose bodily from the grave because HE and HE alone had a body that was to never suffer decay. Our bodies do! Again, IN Adam we all die spiritually; IN Christ we are all made alive spiritually!
If Christ had not risen from the dead, it would have been proof that God the Father had NOT accepted His sacrifice on our behalf. The penalty of sin would have remained upon all of us. The resurrection is as real as Christ's death and burial. I have never denied that. Again, I would ask that we all refrain from casting verses at one another to condemn each other lest we find that we have misplaced and misdirected the very Word of God! That is a serious matter.
Note to Day of the Lord who has put me on her ignore list. That's fine, but IF you are going to ignore me, please stay off of my threads! Besides, you come with nothing biblical--just your usual empty accusations.
It is almost amusing to me that I am so often accused of not answering people's questions (not true) by those who will NOT answer mine!
Twin--WHAT is the connection between Matthew 16:27 and Matthew 16:28?
You deny the ressurection by saying "When will my body be reunited with my soul--it won't! Ever!"
What I define ressurection is your (a persons) body being reunited with your soul (obviously if you have died), all people who have ever been conceived.
1 Corinthians 15:12-13 verse was to show that by Gods Word the argument of believing that Christ was raised from the dead but others will not will be considered a shadow of a faith. For God will view that position as unbelief.
"WHAT is the connection between Matthew 16:27 and Matthew 16:28?"
Simply that some will see Jesus ascension before they died. You maybe limiting the #'s of disciples that Jesus was speaking to. I for many years thought that Apostles and disciples were synonymous, but that is not correct. At times the disiciples meant the 12 apostles, other times it included the larger group of men that followed Jesus.
Jesus had many disciples (for he sent out the seventy (or 72) into the towns but only had the twelve apostles.
You deny the ressurection by saying "When will my body be reunited with my soul--it won't! Ever!"
What I define ressurection is your (a persons) body being reunited with your soul (obviously if you have died), all people who have ever been conceived.
1 Corinthians 15:12-13 verse was to show that by Gods Word the argument of believing that Christ was raised from the dead but others will not will be considered a shadow of a faith. For God will view that position as unbelief.
"WHAT is the connection between Matthew 16:27 and Matthew 16:28?"
Simply that some will see Jesus ascension before they died. You maybe limiting the #'s of disciples that Jesus was speaking to. I for many years thought that Apostles and disciples were synonymous, but that is not correct. At times the disiciples meant the 12 apostles, other times it included the larger group of men that followed Jesus.
Jesus had many disciples (for he sent out the seventy (or 72) into the towns but only had the twelve apostles.
final answer.
TwinSpin
Read 1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:
Also
2Cr 5:1 ¶ For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Cr 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Cr 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
That is telling us that the corruptible body we have is not the body that will be. Preterist does not deny the resurrection he denies that we will have the same bodies which aligns with scripture.
2 Cor 5:2-3 says that our earthly house dissolves (dody dies) it is not remade, we are given a house from heaven.
Read 1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:
Also
2Cr 5:1 ¶ For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Cr 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Cr 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
That is telling us that the corruptible body we have is not the body that will be. Preterist does not deny the resurrection he denies that we will have the same bodies which aligns with scripture.
2 Cor 5:2-3 says that our earthly house dissolves (dody dies) it is not remade, we are given a house from heaven.
You deny the ressurection by saying "When will my body be reunited with my soul--it won't! Ever!"
What I define ressurection is your (a persons) body being reunited with your soul (obviously if you have died), all people who have ever been conceived.
1 Corinthians 15:12-13 verse was to show that by Gods Word the argument of believing that Christ was raised from the dead but others will not will be considered a shadow of a faith. For God will view that position as unbelief.
"WHAT is the connection between Matthew 16:27 and Matthew 16:28?"
Simply that some will see Jesus ascension before they died. You maybe limiting the #'s of disciples that Jesus was speaking to. I for many years thought that Apostles and disciples were synonymous, but that is not correct. At times the disiciples meant the 12 apostles, other times it included the larger group of men that followed Jesus.
Jesus had many disciples (for he sent out the seventy (or 72) into the towns but only had the twelve apostles.
final answer.
Sorry, but your "final answer" is really not an answer. You have still not addressed verse 27. What is its connection to verse 28?
Read 1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:
Also
2Cr 5:1 ¶ For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Cr 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Cr 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
That is telling us that the corruptible body we have is not the body that will be. Preterist does not deny the resurrection he denies that we will have the same bodies which aligns with scripture.
2 Cor 5:2-3 says that our earthly house dissolves (dody dies) it is not remade, we are given a house from heaven.
Meerkat2,
I had never stated that the christian's body will not be glorified, that when at the resurrection, and those alive at the time, our body wiil be glorified. Where this is coming from, I have no idea. Yet Gods Word does state that we shall still see God in our body,
Job 19:25-27
I know that my Redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand upon the earth
And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God;
I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another
"When will my body be reunited with my soul--it won't! Ever!" certianly doesn't sound like that there is a physical resurrection of any kind. If you could please copy and paste where preterist stated he believes in a physical resurrection only in a glorified body, please do so I didn't see it.
Peterist, thanks for the nice comment (in another post).. I did address it. It may not be what you wanted, but......... There is no other I would \ can give. I can't rewrite what is a correct answer.
And yes, I am being bold by defining the answer as correct. I really just want to let it this come to a end. You had your say, I had mine. In the end, I will see the Lord in my flesh, glorified. You shall see him too, in the flesh.
"final answer" was just a little humor from "who wants to be a millionaire"
Twin
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