Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
NASB Mark 10:27
Looking at them, Jesus *said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."
I actually like the wording of the NKJV better, as it speaks volumes about this verse.
Jesus looked at them intently and said, "Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But not with God. Everything is possible with God."
We are called to OVERCOME evil. What does this mean? If a person has overcome evil, then all that is left is righteousness. Righteousness is PERFECT! We do this with Christ, and with His help, we overcome the evil in our carnality. Humanly speaking that is. The desires of the world no longer have a grip on us. Can you see it? It isn't that far off in the distance, for those seeking His Righteousness to Perfection.
People who say we cannot be perfect have no idea what it is they are saying, for God is perfect. Even with that label of perfection, He is actually beyond perfection. Holy of ALL Holies. People who say we are born in sin, so we cannot be perfect, miss the point of John 3:3. Being born again of the Spirit means we are now forever tied to God as He is our Father. And like I said, our Father IS PERFECT. His Son Is Perfect, and led a Perfect Humanly Life. The ONLY one to have ever done this, EVER.
Since we have sinned, and are corrupt in the flesh, it takes a sacrifice for remittance of sin. It needs washed from His HOLY Presence. Jesus Christ has DONE this. Through Him we are perfected, but, But, BUT, we must strive to walk our daily lives in Righteousness. Righteousness means without SIN. AS we grow, as Christians, we seek His face. To seek Holiness, we must BE Holy.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. IN LOVE, He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
We are given instructions in this world, IF WE WALK according to HIS WILL. All over the Bible, but we CANNOT be blind to His Words!
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all behavior; because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
Any Preacher that says we cannot attain perfection, in this life, because we are the fallen children of Adam, RUN! Run as fast as you can from that delusional ungodly influence. Or run from those who say that no matter what we do, we are perfect because Christ MADE us that way because we said a prayer once in our lives. RUN Children RUN! God called you to be Holy, and called you to OBEY His Holy Commandment. We are to overcome this world, and attain the perfection In and Through Him, our King, Christ Jesus.
Um...ok, this has definitely turned into an interesting discussion and I'm glad I started the thread. I do have to say, though, that I do not use the King James Version of the Bible for quite a number of reasons. I have several Bibles upstairs including NIV, New American, and several other versions (most of which are Catholic Bibles, although there are a few Protestant Bibles), generally I use the NAB, but anyways...
I do not believe that humans today can achieve 100% perfection. We can strive for it, but not achieve it. I do believe in the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, however, I do not share Freedom's belief that EVERYONE is assumed body and soul into heaven. Souls? Yes. I believe that your soul goes will go to heaven, but I do not believe that your body does. I believe that your physical body remains here. Forgive me here for not having all these references in front of me (and for really bad spelling), I've been up since 06:00 and worked 14 hours today, so I'm a little beat. But in any case, there is a teaching in the church that after the 2nd Coming, your body can be reunited with the soul, but I do not believe that people can come and go as they please (or as granted by God) in this day and age. I do however believe in Ghosts and that "visits" can be made to those of us here on earth in the physical body by those souls that have passed. I also believe that some of us can be more "sensitive" to ghosts/passed souls.
In response to the OP, it seems very few make it to perfection, but I do believe all things are possible with God.
HotinAZ, I am curious what denomination you are or if you attend a church assembly? (since you brought up preachers)
It seems over the last year I have been hearing, be perfect, you can be perfect, etc. I have had issues with being a perfectionist, so I am trying to figure out God's way of perfection vs. my way of perfection.
*Oh, and what is this Mary assumption? That she never physically died?*
Last edited by Asthedeer; 09-14-2008 at 09:44 PM..
Reason: add question
Um...ok, this has definitely turned into an interesting discussion and I'm glad I started the thread. I do have to say, though, that I do not use the King James Version of the Bible for quite a number of reasons. I have several Bibles upstairs including NIV, New American, and several other versions (most of which are Catholic Bibles, although there are a few Protestant Bibles), generally I use the NAB, but anyways...
I do not believe that humans today can achieve 100% perfection. We can strive for it, but not achieve it. I do believe in the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, however, I do not share Freedom's belief that EVERYONE is assumed body and soul into heaven. Souls? Yes. I believe that your soul goes will go to heaven, but I do not believe that your body does. I believe that your physical body remains here. Forgive me here for not having all these references in front of me (and for really bad spelling), I've been up since 06:00 and worked 14 hours today, so I'm a little beat. But in any case, there is a teaching in the church that after the 2nd Coming, your body can be reunited with the soul, but I do not believe that people can come and go as they please (or as granted by God) in this day and age. I do however believe in Ghosts and that "visits" can be made to those of us here on earth in the physical body by those souls that have passed. I also believe that some of us can be more "sensitive" to ghosts/passed souls.
Here's a few questions.
As a Catholic, Has the Blessed Virgin appeared to people in the last 2,000 yrs.?
Does Jesus still have His body?
Did Elijah and Moses appeared in bodily form to Jesus and a couple of the disciples, and were witnesses to the transfiguration of Jesus where He took on the divine nature?
After Jesus raised Lazarus, did He have to die again?
This does relate to perfection, in that the last enemy to overcome is death and the path to that is perfection.
In response to the OP, it seems very few make it to perfection, but I do believe all things are possible with God.
HotinAZ, I am curious what denomination you are or if you attend a church assembly? (since you brought up preachers)
It seems over the last year I have been hearing, be perfect, you can be perfect, etc. I have had issues with being a perfectionist, so I am trying to figure out God's way of perfection vs. my way of perfection.
*Oh, and what is this Mary assumption? That she never physically died?*
That is a very important distinction, perfection according to who.
I was told once;
Interpret the wonders of the Lord and you will be disolved and become what you interpret.
still getting use to the new name, thanks for keeping your a.k.a. below it.
I believe that your soul goes will go to heaven, but I do not believe that your body does. I believe that your physical body remains here.
Guess who else believed they way you do...those who confronted Jesus and did not believe in him.
Luke 20:27
Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question.
Acts 17:32
When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject."
Acts 23:6
Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead."
"But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith"
This maybe harsh but God says through Paul that "If you deny the ressurection from the dead, your faith is useless"
Guess who else believed they way you do...those who confronted Jesus and did not believe in him.
Luke 20:27
Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question.
Acts 17:32
When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject."
Acts 23:6
Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead."
"But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith"
This maybe harsh but God says through Paul that "If you deny the ressurection from the dead, your faith is useless"
There certainly is a ressurection of the dead, yet not all the bodies are ressurected in the same glory, nor at the same time.
The way we live our lives, and learn the attitudes of Christ determine the ressurection of the dead, but as Jesus said.
To you who liveth and believeth in me, Ye shall never die....still stands as well, though there are so few that believe in this promise.
In response to the OP, it seems very few make it to perfection, but I do believe all things are possible with God.
HotinAZ, I am curious what denomination you are or if you attend a church assembly? (since you brought up preachers)
It seems over the last year I have been hearing, be perfect, you can be perfect, etc. I have had issues with being a perfectionist, so I am trying to figure out God's way of perfection vs. my way of perfection.
*Oh, and what is this Mary assumption? That she never physically died?*
Quote:
HotinAZ, I am curious what denomination you are or if you attend a church assembly? (since you brought up preachers)
I have felt at times in the past to go to seminary school, and become what I thought the church was lacking. Problem is, is that I haven't found a denominational core values i can go along with. I do not at this time attend church or mass. Been at most denominations throughout my life. Some for many many years.
The problem I see with today's preachers, is that they are NOT perfect. You would think, that if one is CALLED by God to preach His Word, they must first do the very thing it is that they preach, which is perfection In and THROUGH Christ Jesus. Walk the walk, in other words. That is if they preach it at all, as most don't.
Quote:
I have had issues with being a perfectionist, so I am trying to figure out God's way of perfection vs. my way of perfection.
I also am having issues with perfection. I have many things in my life yet to overcome. But I have faith that I will with God's Help. Which is why I quoted that verse at the beginning of my last post.
I sometimes think people don't realize what happens to a person of faith who IS perfect. The bible tells us what happens. You literally, and I mean LITERALLY, can commune with God. The Overcomer is the second highest person rewarded in the Bible. Read the letters to the seven churches in Revelation.
They EAT of the Tree of Life, which is IN the Paradise of God. Does it say they are alive or dead?
They will not be hurt by the second death.
The get to eat of the hidden manna, and a white stone with their new name written on it. Can you imagine Christ Jesus renaming you, like He did the disciples?
They will reign with Jesus over the Nations. They will get the morning star.
They will get a white robe and their name NOT be ERASED from the Book of Life, and best of ALL? Jesus will PERSONALLY Confess YOUR NAME to Father!!!
They will be made pillars in the Temple. They would have the name of God, the name of the City of god, and even Jesus Himself written on them.
They will ACTUALLY sit on the Throne of Jesus, the same way Jesus sat with Father's on His.
That is unless you believe we cannot overcome in this life and be perfect, as He is perfect.
Quote:
*Oh, and what is this Mary assumption? That she never physically died?*
I am not commenting on that, as Jesus Himself would have to tell me this is the case. Otherwise it is mere speculation.
The thing with perfection is that it makes growing impossible.
So people who believe that they can learn things in heaven are mistaken; growth is not possible in heaven, because if you are able to grow it means that you weren’t perfect before your growth which means that heaven wasn't perfect. Besidez, there is no need to grow in heaven because everything is already supposed to be perfect there.
The thing with perfection is that it makes growing impossible.
So people who believe that they can learn things in heaven are mistaken; growth is not possible in heaven, because if you are able to grow it means that you weren’t perfect before your growth which means that heaven wasn't perfect. Besidez, there is no need to grow in heaven because everything is already supposed to be perfect there.
There is a place before heaven where you can grow that I believe in, and it's called Purgatory.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The thing with perfection is that it makes growing impossible.
Besidez, there is no need to grow in heaven because everything is already supposed to be perfect there.
