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Ok, just to pose this question outside of a different thread. I personally believe it is not possible for any mortal to be 100% perfect. Yes, we can strive for perfection in everything we do, but I don't believe it is possible, in our mortal bodies, to achieve perfection. Even the greatest in our society aren't and haven't been perfect. Some might argue that Mother Theresa was perfect and that Pope John Paul II was perfect, but to prove my point, they both still went to confession, and I know that JPII went to confession at least once per week. I'm just curious as to what other people think.
Ok, just to pose this question outside of a different thread. I personally believe it is not possible for any mortal to be 100% perfect. Yes, we can strive for perfection in everything we do, but I don't believe it is possible, in our mortal bodies, to achieve perfection. Even the greatest in our society aren't and haven't been perfect. Some might argue that Mother Theresa was perfect and that Pope John Paul II was perfect, but to prove my point, they both still went to confession, and I know that JPII went to confession at least once per week. I'm just curious as to what other people think.
Not sure your two examples prove that perfection is not attainable.
Scripture points out a number of perfect people.
Surely Enoch, Elijah, Job, Noah, Asa, John the Baptist, John the Beloved, James, Stephen (he beheld God and Christ),
Gen 6:9 These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God.
Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job 8:20 Behold, God will not cast away a perfect [man], neither will he help the evil doers:
1Ki 15:14 But the high places were not removed: nevertheless Asa's heart was perfect with the LORD all his days.
Psa 37:37 Mark the perfect [man], and behold the upright: for the end of [that] man [is] peace.
Psa 101:6 Mine eyes [shall be] upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.
Psa 138:8 The LORD will perfect [that which] concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, [endureth] for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.
Perfection is taught in approx. 60 verses in the new testament, it is written in 99 verses in the scriptures. Some speaking of the perfect, some exhorting perfection, some commanding perfection.
The question is.
Can God not create a person capable of perfection?
Does God hold us back from His fulness, or do we?
If it is us that keeps us from perfection, than it is due to false instruction and a lack of sowing seeds to that end.
2Sa 22:33 God [is] my strength [and] power: and he maketh my way perfect.
1Ki 8:61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Very thoughtful post, Freedom. Great examples of those that were perfect in their devotion and worship to God. We should all strive for perfection, but since we are not perfect we can not attain perfection.
I do believe that as it says in Romans 5:12, that through Adam we all inherit imperfection.
I think that to be fully perfect, you would have the ability to live forever. Our imperfections include a physiology such that we age and die. Will God restore that perfection that Adam and Eve lost?
Very thoughtful post, Freedom. Great examples of those that were perfect in their devotion and worship to God. We should all strive for perfection, but since we are not perfect we can not attain perfection.
I do believe that as it says in Romans 5:12, that through Adam we all inherit imperfection.
I think that to be fully perfect, you would have the ability to live forever. Our imperfections include a physiology such that we age and die. Will God restore that perfection that Adam and Eve lost?
Okay, so Enoch did not see death because his testimony was that he pleased God.
Elijah did not see death
Moses appeared on the mount of transfiguration, and undid the false record of his death, and confirmed the promise that God had made to him.
John the beloved has not tasted of death.
And those that were standing when Jesus said, There be SOME of you standing here that shall not taste of death, til they see the son of man coming in His kingdom (which i believe has not happened yet).
There is also the record of the writer of the Odes of Solomon who said that death had no power over him, and that He was transfigured as Jesus and some of the disciples were.
There is another record of Enoch, in which a city that He was given to raise up a holy people was taken into heaven without tasting death.
The wages of Sin is death, this is true.
If one overcomes sin, then death will back down and have no power over the one that overcomes.
Jesus had this teaching in John 11 and John 5, do we believe it? Not to many do.
God has not limited us in our ability to be one with Him, He has given His Son and the Holy Spirit to help us and comfort us. We must Ask, Seek, and knock.
Hunger and Thirst after righteousness that we might be filled with All the fulness of God.
It is an awesome promise that has been lost in the traditions of the fathers.
The arm of flesh has done a poor job of teaching the promises, and they are almost lost.
Can you find anywhere that Jesus taught that we could not be like Him?
We have surely all sinned and fallen short, we are not sealed to this fate, we are more than conquerors in Christ Jesus, and Satan only has the power over us that we give him.
I do believe that as it says in Romans 5:12, that through Adam we all inherit imperfection.
Will God restore that perfection that Adam and Eve lost?
It is the knowledge of good and evil that causes sin. Animals are incapable of sin. We cannot be perfect in our mortal forms. God will perfect us in our risen forms.
Why would God command something that is impossible?
(...)
Did He mock us as well?
Doesn't God works in mysterious ways?
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Yes it is impossible for a human to be perfect.
