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What is the purpose of making up a doctrine of eternal punishment? No human being would do that to their worst enemy but the church teaches that the almighty creator of the universe...no less...will do it to 95% of HISCREATION . Think about that! The very thing he created he will allow to suffer and burn in some fiery torment...forever! Amazing!
Hey spm, I hope all is well with you. I don't believe eternal punishment is made up doctrine. I believe it's what God's Word the Bible teaches. Not sure where you're getting the 95%, but God is not sending anyone to hell, people send themselves by refusing to believe and accept Jesus as their Savior. The Lord does not want this, but He does respect people's choice to reject Him, that's how much He loves us.
Not sure where you're getting the 95%, but God is not sending anyone to hell, people send themselves by refusing to believe and accept Jesus as their Savior. The Lord does not want this, but He does respect people's choice to reject Him, that's how much He loves us.
Any Calvinist worth his/her salt can prove from scripture that all who have been "given" to Jesus will be saved and that all believers were predestined to be so from the foundation of the world. But, alas, you know God (and it shows) and know He would not predestine anyone to a horrible fate. So, trapped by a belief in eternal torment, you are forced to come up with a story whereby the only 'loving' thing God can do is cast unbelievers into a lake of torment against His will.
You may want to question what you've been taught as Genesis 3 gives the entire scenario concerning the cost of eating from the forbidden tree.
The word that has been translated as eternal in some translations, is aionios which means of or relating to the ages. Some translations have translated this accordingly:
Examples: (caps from the translation)
Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition (Greek\English Interlinear)
1. And these shall go forth to the aionian 1cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life
2. And THAT ENEMY who deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and Sulphur, where both the BEAST and FALSE-PROPHET [were cast,] and they will be tormented Day and Night for the AGES of the AGES
The New Covenant, 1884
1. And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life
2. And the accuser that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the beast and [the] false prophet [are], and they shall be tormented day and night to the aeons of the aeons
Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898
1. And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during
2. and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night-to the ages of the ages
The Holy Bible In Modern English (Fenton), 1903
1. And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.
2. And the Devil who deceived them was hurled into the lake of Divine fire, where also were the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tortured day and night through the ages of the ages.
New Testament in Modern Speech, 1910
1. And these shall go away into the Punishment 1of the Ages, but the righteous into the Life* of the Ages.[/SIZE]
2. and the Devil,** who had been leading them astray, was thrown into 3the Lake of fire and sulphur where the Wild Beast and the false Prophet were, and day and night they will suffer torture until the Ages of the Ages *Footnote: *Of the Ages Greek 'aeonian.'
The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, 1976
1. And these shall go away into age-abiding *correction, but the righteous into **age-abiding life
2. And the Adversary that had been deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where were both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of ages
The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958
1. And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life
2. And the accuser, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where both the wild beast and the false prophet were cast; and they will be tormented day and night for the ages of the ages
The Western New Testament, 1926
1. And these will go away into eternal punishment,* but the righteous into life eternal
2. And the devil, who deceiveth them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the wild beast and the false prophet; and they will be tormented day and night for evermore.
[Footnote: Or chastisement (I S. John iv.18). Ref. on word “forever” in Matthew 21:19-literally “for the age"
The New Testament, a Translation, 1938
1. And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life
2. And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where are also the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of the ages.
Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
1. And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian
2. And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.
Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
1. And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.
2. ...and the Adversary that had been deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [were] both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of ages.
The Companion Bible,1990 A King James Reference Bible
1. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment : but the righteous into life eternal
2. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever
Many reference in this Bible that Aion which means "age." Aionios-"of or belonging to an age."
Ages are indefinite and have a beginning and an end. If eternal hell/torment is the destiny of the majority, why would God not reveal this to each and every human being for whom Christ died? If all are to be reunited in Christ (Ephesians), how can there be eternal suffering for anyone? Many will face punishment but God will subject all to Himself that He may be all in all. How can eternal hell/torment exist if God will become all in all? (1 Corin. 15) God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-20-2008 at 03:41 AM..
Hey spm, I hope all is well with you. I don't believe eternal punishment is made up doctrine. I believe it's what God's Word the Bible teaches. Not sure where you're getting the 95%, but God is not sending anyone to hell, people send themselves by refusing to believe and accept Jesus as their Savior. The Lord does not want this, but He does respect people's choice to reject Him, that's how much He loves us.
ShanaBrown, I notice not only did you not give book,chapter and verse, You only qouted translations/ interpretations, that are not the most accepted translations..i.e., the NASB, the New KJV, The KJV, the ASB, and the NIV.
Are the ones that you posted the ones associated with the group that you are a member of???
MT 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal PUNISHMENT, but the righteous to eternal life."
The word for punishment here is "KOLASIS." The meaning is to punish, but for CORRECTIVE purposes and not out of vengeance. God is correcting those nations on His left with "aionion kolasis" which is translated this way in these Bibles:
"And these shall go away into age-abiding CORRECTION" -Rotherham's Emphasized Bible
"And these shall go away into aeonian CHASTISEMENT"-New Covenant by J.W. Hanson
"And these shall be coming away into CHASTENING eonion" -Concordant New Testament
"And these shall go forth to the aionian CUTTING-OFF"-Emphatic Diaglott
"And these shall go away into age-lasting CUTTING-OFF" -The New Testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed
I've even heard it debated (in dark rooms with no windows) about the future of Satan - is he the equivalent of Judas, but on a grander scale? God knew of his rebellion, used it for His glory, but he's worthy of punishment nonetheless.
Marianinark, I have shared these verses many times and just forgot to post the scripture at the top as I usually do, as I was on my way to work. I apologize. From what I understand these are acceptable translations (not interpretations) and if you look in some of the translations that you have presented, footnotes indicate that aionios means of or relating to an age. For example, the King James Reference Bible provides this information. I am a Christian, Marianinark and I use various translations. God bless.
The Lord does not want this, but He does respect people's choice to reject Him, that's how much He loves us.
All will bow before Him and confess Him willingly and gladly. This does not sound like they will reject Him forever, ILNC. Why are all to be made subject to Him? (1 Cor. 15) Take care and God bless.
Any Calvinist worth his/her salt can prove from scripture that all who have been "given" to Jesus will be saved and that all believers were predestined to be so from the foundation of the world. But, alas, you know God (and it shows) and know He would not predestine anyone to a horrible fate. So, trapped by a belief in eternal torment, you are forced to come up with a story whereby the only 'loving' thing God can do is cast unbelievers into a lake of torment against His will.
You may want to question what you've been taught as Genesis 3 gives the entire scenario concerning the cost of eating from the forbidden tree.
I know God, and I know what the His Word teaches that hell is eternal, and it will be the choice of the person, not God. God does not send anyone to hell, they send themselves by making the wrong choice. Maybe you should rethink what you have been misguided into believing that everyone gets in no matter what.
He who overcomes by force hath overcome but half his foe.” No one doubts that God can subdue the world by force. Anyone who can speak this world into existence with just a word can certainly wipe out all His enemies with the same. And at the same time, anyone who is powerful enough to turn the hearts of kings and use entire nations to accomplish His will, is also powerful enough to win His entire creation by love.
John Milton
Is the power of God's love able to convince all hearts of their need for Him? Eternal hell says that God is unable to convince all to return to the Creator. Who is greater, darkness, satan, sin, ignorance, blindness or the light, truth, power, and love of the Creator?. Eternal hell says that the deceiver will be successful in keeping the majority for whom Christ died forever separated from the Creator who will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. It says that the deceiver will not be ultimately defeated because here we will have the majority forever lost, separated from the Creator due to the work of the deceiver. It says that Jesus who was sent to be the Savior of the world will not complete the mission. But Jesus came to complete the mission and satan will be defeated in every way . God bless..
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