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It's this very factor that tells us that not only unbelievers but believers alike have the same sentence of death - the carnal nature cannot enter in. So the soul of a man still resides in the vessel, whether the spirit has been given back dominion or not (some are dying to the flesh today, following Jesus' call to lay down their lives and take (His life) up again). But perfection - purity - demands that the vessel must be totally emptied of the old nature; if we are saved by His death, are they exempt of the same process?
I agree with you, little elmer. Thank you for sharing.
So glad to see this topic and the gracious spirit in which it is being addressed.
I hope and pray that those who read this can come to accept those of us who believe that God has from the beginning planned to bring every person born into His kingdom, IN DUE TIME, and not think of us as heretics.
Tho I have seen some believers in UR (universal reconciliation) state they do not believe there is any severe consequences for rejecting the gospel of God in this lifetime, most believe there is a time of fire (not literal but figurative) to bring us to the condition that is necessary to be in the Kingdom. God has always worked with a select few during the ages so far. He has chosen, usually the second and not the first, to show his favor or bring about His will. But why do we think that God who has an abundance of time to work with His creation, only allows us x number of years to 'earn' our salvation or come to faith against so many odds and then withdraw His mercy (which scripture says endures forever) Yes, judgement befalls us but why must we assume it is either heaven or hell? Hell is usally translated from Hebrew or Greek words that literally mean pit and are often translated grave. It is the actual grave or the unseen. But the Lake of Fire is real, but what is the Lake of Fire? God is a consuming fire. Fire was used to purify items to sanctify them to be used in the service of hte gods. The laver in the temple was filled with water but was symbolic of fire (pure molten gold is clear), and so is it so difficult to believe that the Lake of Fire will separate us from our carnal nature? All will be salted with fire, some during this age, most during the next age.
That little word 'aion' and its various forms appears more than 15 times in scripture and cannot mean eternity. Since sometimes it says before the aion, at times at the end of the aion, this present aion, at least once it was translated 'never' ????, this aion and the next, before times aionian, sometimes it is aions (plural). Are we to believe that the translators were perfect in their understanding at which time to translate it eternal? When if you do some research, there have been numerous revisions in just the King James translation of the Bible. Every time aion would make perfect sense to translate it age. or age lasting. Scripture says that Christ reigns forever and ever, and yet Revelation says he reigns UNTIL all rule and authority has been put under His feet and THEN the rule is given to the Father. If all are perfect then why would there be any need for rulers other than the Father who is the ultimate source of life? The temple and its statutes were to be forever, and yet the New covenant did away with those, so how could they be forever? Jonah said his condition in the whale was forever, but we know it was not. If a servant wanted to stay with a master even after his servitude was over, he could do a procedure to put himself forever under his master's lordship, yet it could not be any longer than a lifetime.
God deals with a firstfruits now. But if the firstfruits is holy, the whole lump is holy.
If a fireman saves all 20 people from a burning building, did that make his rescue useless? Just because some of those rescued aren't grateful, doesn't make the rescue of no validity. If you bought 1,000 sheep, you would expect 1,000 sheep to be delivered. The transaction had nothing to do with us. It was arranged by the Father. This does not mean that we should not live a life pleasing to our Father. We ow him everything, our lives, our hope of the future. All honor, glory and praise should be showered upon Him for his wisdom, mercy, grace, and,yes, even justice.
I happen to believe that everything that is happening is a part of His plan to teach us everything we need to learn in this life to be sons of the Most High. In order to learn, He chose to put us in an experiential setting and some of the clay He made as vessels of honor and some were made vessels of dishonor, marred in the hand of the potter, and it all serves His purpose. Robots???? never!!! Robots do what they are programmed to do without learning anything. We learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others. And he can take the lump of clay that was made a vessel of dishonor and remake it into something else that seems good to Him.
When the Lord appeard to Thomas after Thomas stated he would not believe Jesus had risen unless he had seen him himself, Jesus did not rebuke Thomas! He called him blessed but said there were special blessings for those who did not see Him, but believed anyway. That falls in line with the scripture that says God is the savior of all men, ESPECIALLY those that believe.
I know that nothing I say will cause or lead anyone of a contrary viewpoint to accept what I believe. But it is something I desire to share. To me, this gives the Father much more power, glory and honor than believing the majority of mankind will suffer in an eternal torture chamber, or just cease to be.
Thanks for the opportunity to share just a small piece of my heart.
Blessings to all.
excellent excellent post scarlet....to God be the glory.
Great to be here!! Ditto...to God be all the glory.
Sorry . . . but if you expect me to see God's glory in the Holocaust, beheading John the Baptist, pandemics, genocide, wars, child molestation and murder, crucifying Jesus, and the myriads horrors of human existence . . . I pass! My God could never be responsible for such atrocities. Demanding God be all those Omni's to "qualify" as God of us egotistical humans is a bit much for me.
I believe that we will see the glory of God in all things, and one day realize how He is working all things to bring about His glorious plan for the creation. For from Him, through Him, and to Him are all things. (Romans 11:36) God bless.
I believe that we will see the glory of God in all things, and one day realize how He is working all things to bring about His glorious plan for the creation. For from Him, through Him, and to Him are all things. (Romans 11:36) God bless.
Hi there Shana...From Him everything (the all/ the ta pavnte) comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all/ ta pavnte ends. Our God is the Source, the Guide and the Goal of ALL that is, blessed be His most glorious Name!
Hi there sis...what a year '08 has been 24 people out of 1 million experience a dissection of the aorta. The great majority never make it to the operating table, and of those who do, few survive. Birdbrain is one of them! On Good Friday the experience began in wonderful meetings with a few saints in the Texas panhandle, ending six months later & 60 lbs lighter after 4 separate operations. The Lord is very good!
In the Book of Acts we read regarding the final recovery of all things from sin, or if you like, when all things are put right, or restored anew.
Acts 3:21
**** "Until final recovery of all things from sin." -Kenneth Taylor-
**** "Until the whole world is re-created." -RIEU-
**** "When all is restored anew." -Monsig. Ronald Knox-
**** "When all things are put right." -BAS-
**** "Of the great restoration." -James Moffatt-
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (AKJV)
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of His holy prophets that have been from of old. (ASV)
Who is to be kept in heaven till the time when all things are put right, of which God has given word by the mouth of his holy prophets, who have been from the earliest times. (BBE)
Whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from long ago.
(Common)
Whom heaven indeed must receive till the times of the restoring of all things, of which God has spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets since time began. (Darby)
Heaven must receive him until the time of universal restoration that God announced long ago through the voice of his holy prophets. Matt. 17:11; Luke 1:70; Acts 1:11 (ISV)
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (KJV)
Whom, indeed, heaven must retain till the time of the accomplishment of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets, from the beginning of time. (LO)
Whom the heavens must receive until the time of restoration of all things. "God spoke of this ages ago, through the mouth of his holy prophets. (Montgomery)
Whom the heavens must retain, until the completion of the times of those things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets of old. (Murdock)
Unto whom, indeed, heaven must needs give welcome, until the times of the due establishment of all things, of which God hath spoken through the mouth of his holy age-past prophets. (Rotherham)
Whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke long ago by the mouth of his holy prophets.
(WEB)
Heaven must receive Him until those times of which God has spoken from the earliest ages through the lips of His holy Prophets--the times of the reconstitution of all things. (Weymouth)
Whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution of all things, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age. (YLT)
Apokatastasis= Restitution=
Re-establishment from a state of ruin (Of a perfect state before the fall of Adam. The kindred verb is "to restore" (see Dr. Marvin Vincent N.T.)....the same as regeneration in Matt. 19:28
The making of all things new. The restoration of Acts 3:21= the "when" of the next clause.
Please Note:
Apokatastasewv in linked with palingenesia
Palingenesia = "new birth"
Palin= "again,"
Genesis= "birth"
Used of "spiritual regeneration," Titus 3:5, involving the communication of a new life.
"And this is in harmony with Gods merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--The purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
Sorry but there is no such thing as Christian universalism. You either are a Christian or a universalist. Can't be both.
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24 people out of 1 million experience a dissection of the aorta. The great majority never make it to the operating table, and of those who do, few survive. Birdbrain is one of them! On Good Friday the experience began in wonderful meetings with a few saints in the Texas panhandle, ending six months later & 60 lbs lighter after 4 separate operations. The Lord is very good!
