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Old 12-31-2008, 08:36 PM
 
Location: NC
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[/SIZE][SIZE=3]Christian Universalism is the belief that all people will eventually be restored/reconciled to God through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. All Christian Universalists or individuals who hold to this belief do not agree on each and every thing like whether or not we have free will, whether or not there is a Trinity, or what happens after we die. But the central thing that we agree on is that God will restore each and every person to Himself. This belief is founded on and found in the Christian scriptures. Here are some references in the Old Testament:

[/SIZE][SIZE=2][/SIZE]Psalms 22:
27. All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28. For the kingdom is the LORD'S
And He rules over the nations.
29. All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive



Psalms 66
4. "All the earth will worship You,
And will sing praises to You;
They will sing praises to Your name." Selah

Psalms 68:18
You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives;
You have received gifts among men,
Even among the rebellious also, that the LORD God may dwell there


Isaiah 25:6-8
The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.
7. And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
8. He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.


Isaiah 45:22-25
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23. "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24. "They will say of Me, `Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
25. "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory."

Zephaniah 3
8 "Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9. "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the LORD,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder




References in the New Testament

John 1:1-9
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2. He was in the beginning with God.3. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.4. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.5. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.6. There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.7. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.8. He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.9. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.




John 12:27-32
27. "Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, `Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour.28. "Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."29. So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, "An angel has spoken to Him."30. Jesus answered and said, "This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.31. "Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.32. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."


Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope21. that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.


1 Corinthians 15:16-28
16. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;17. and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.18. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.20. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.23. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,24. then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.28. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Ephesians 1: 5-10
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens, and things upon the earth."

John 4:14
"And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."

The belief in the eventual restoration of all men to God through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ was held by many in the early church.
The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1908) by Schaff-Herzog says in volume 12, on page 96, "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
Quotes:

St. Basil the Great (c. 329-379) in his De Asceticis wrote: "The mass of men (Christians) say that there is to be an end of punishment to those who are punished (He was not a Universalist)

Augustine (345-430) (Champion of eternal torment)
"There are very many (imo quam plurimi, can be translated majority) who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments" (Enchiria, ad Laurent. c.29)

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EarlyChristianView.html

This belief was held by and taught by many Christians but also held by some Christians leaders who taught eternal punishment to the people.

[SIZE=2][/SIZE][SIZE=3]Thanks and God bless.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:41 PM
 
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Interesting but these scriptures are just not convincing enough. Too many scripture to contradict you.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:45 PM
 
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Agree with fundy.

Jesus was pretty adament against religious self righteous people in His day. Seems when talking about hell, He was talking to them.

I used to be a seeking universalist, but having seen some bloodbath debates on the topic, I realized that there are just some people who want to sit in the front row ALL the time, and the gulf between the front and the back is just too wide.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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I understand the perspective and wish it could be that simple, but do you not think these verses could be about the thousand year reign or eternity. You know once all evil has be vanquished.

I appreciate you going to this trouble to share.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:52 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
Interesting but these scriptures are just not convincing enough. Too many scripture to contradict you.
Which ones, Fundamentalist?

Quote:
I understand the perspective and wish it could be that simple, but do you not think these verses could be about the thousand year reign or eternity.
I do believe that they refer to a time when all will be reconciled to God, not sure what you mean, RobinD69.


Quote:
Jesus was pretty adament against religious self righteous people in His day. Seems when talking about hell, He was talking to them.
I do believe that many will experience hell, HotinAz.

Thanks for your response and respectfulness. God bless.
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:03 PM
 
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My questions is, why be a Christian? Why are there Christians all over the world suffering and dieing in His name and Jesus said as much. Why did Jesus die on the cross, why was He brutalised? for what? so the whole world could be reconcile. How is the just judge, just? how are rape victims vendicated, how are murder victims vendicated? where is the justice? If we are ALL reconciled?
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:07 PM
 
Location: God's Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Interesting but these scriptures are just not convincing enough. Too many scripture to contradict you.
I agree with you Fundamentalist. Shana you know I love ya, but I just don't believe this is what the Bible teaches.
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:11 PM
 
Location: NC
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I know, ILNC, love you too

And for those who might say, "Oh no, not again!" someone asked me to share and this is why I created the thread. God bless.
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:25 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
My questions is, why be a Christian? Why are there Christians all over the world suffering and dieing in His name and Jesus said as much. Why did Jesus die on the cross, why was He brutalised? for what? so the whole world could be reconcile. How is the just judge, just? how are rape victims vendicated, how are murder victims vendicated? where is the justice? If we are ALL reconciled?
Fundamentalist, being a Christian is a blessing. Believers are to be lights in the world..They are supposed to see our love for one another, for example, so that that the world will know. We are part of the process of bringing others to the Lord. God is working through us to reach others and I believe that we are the firstfruits in this plan of God to restore all to Himself. I believe that those who have suffered for the Lord will receive their reward for this, but really if we do suffer, we are only doing our duty, I believe because He suffered for us.

Jesus died on the cross for all of us. If all are restored to God because of the death and resurrection of Jesus, does this make His sacrifice any less important? How could it? He died and was brutalized for all of us. Will evil , sin, satan, and death have a greater effect on God's creation than what the Lord suffered? He deserves all.

I believe that many will suffer hell, torment. God is a just God. We reap what we sow, but it was His good pleasure to reconcile to Himself. He loves them all, even the rapists and murderers. If a rapist or murderer repents today and comes to God, what would you say, that they are unacceptable to God? God bless.
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
I do believe that they refer to a time when all will be reconciled to God, not sure what you mean, RobinD69.
What I am speaking of is after all the evil is purged from and we step into the millineum or eternity without any sin available to taint anything or anyone, then all will praise and glorify God forever. We all know there is a hell for a purpose and that purpose is actually for the fallen angels, but it also includes the unrepentant. There will be those who will be given the chance to repent before the judgement seat and still will not for reasons of their own. many believe hell is going to be a big party and heaven a killjoy, there will still be those who refuse to worship God because they cannot reconcile the OT or the fact that some will go to hell. Remember people are stubborn and will still be holding onto worldly wisdom rather then Godly wisdom.

You are not a normal Universalist, you are not saying that there is more than one way to God like they do. You seem more like a Christian with a universal hope instead of faith.
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