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Yes Revelation 13 IS a deep subject, but I assure you the 2 beasts spoken of are not the USA and the RCC. The first beast is a political 'beast,' the second is a religious 'beast.'
Revelation 13:1 "And I [John] stood upon the sand of the sea, and [i] saw a beast rise out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."
'This is John's vision, and the sea that John is standing on and the beast is rising out of represents the masses of peoples of the world. This symbol of the "sea" being people is documented in Revelation 17:15. This "sea", or masses of people are looking to this "beast" [political beast] as their peace system. The "seven heads" are seven dominions of the people, or seven continents of this world."Horns" are always symbolic of "power". These "ten horns" are ten agencies, or units of power flowing from this beast, or political system.
Revelation 13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."
This beast coming up out of the earth looks like a Lamb [Jesus Christ], yet he speaks like a dragon; because he is the dragon [Satan].
Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
I think I actually agree. (You won't see me say that too often as I am usually lost in all the legalisms people put on the Bible.) There is sometimes so many extras put into things people write about the bible that it makes it hard to really tell what they are talking about. But this, IMHO is exactly how I have studied and came to understand these verses.
Miss Sherry, please, you brought tears to my eyes. I understand and I'm not afraid to STAND UP AND PUBLICLY SAY SO!! There's a pain in my heart for those who won't believe! I understand! I do! Do what God has laid on your heart to do! Just do it! Forget about the ridicule. They ridicule Him too!
REMEMBER this my friend, and I'm typing it in color so yes, it will stand out: THERE'S NO TELLING WHO'S HEART THAT YOU HAVE REACHED WITH THE TRUTH! ONLY GOD IN HEAVEN TRULY KNOWS THE HEARTS OF MAN! ONLY GOD KNOWS! I HAVE FAITH THAT SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE IS WATCHING, SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE IS BEEN TOUCHED, AND CALLED AND PULLED AND TUGGED INTO KNOWLEDGE OF WHO................CHRIST JESUS IS!! SOMEBODY! I BELIEVE THAT WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL!
So, I've said all that, to say this: Let's run this race my friend. Let's endure to the end. We're almost there! God Bless you, friend. I'm with you all the way to the end.
With Love, Betsey
Hi Betsy,
Thankyou for the encouragement. I hope you are right when you say we are almost there...because what I saw was horrible...But we only need remember that God is with us. Never forget that, even if we think He is not doing as He promised. He will keep true to His word...it may not be as we expect...but He will. I know that you understand what I am about to say...but there are others who still need to understand.
Think...Think like a child. Do not get caught up in all the arguements and legalisms that are put on the bible. It's simple...believe...believe with all your heart...not just your mouth (I say this with love)...Come to Jesus...be saved. Time is of an urgency to bring all you can to Christ. Do you not feel it in the air?
Love,
Sherry
No, it never has.
Scripture talks about believers being gathered to Christ on judgment day, not about a rapture at a separate time. (See Matthew 24 and 1 Thessalonians 4). Millennialism comes not from Scripture but from faulty interpretation of the Old Testament and Revelation prophecies.
But WE are not the subjects and participants of either Matthew 24 or 1 Thessalonians 4. The context is clearly about those people of that first-century, pre-A.D. 70 time frame. WE are not the WE and WE are not the YE in those passages.
The United States is very much the "reborn" Roman Empire IMHO. Just look at our society right down to the Eagle, mile markers on the highways, senate and house. Signs of Rome are EVERYWHERE in our nation.
What "reborn" Roman Empire, JViello? The Scriptures no where speak of any such thing. This idea is a creation of futurists who do so because they MUST have a revised Roman Empire in order for their system to work!
If one places the Revelation in its proper historical setting (ca. A. D. 70), there is no need for a revised Roman Empire. The Roman nation spoken of in the Revelation is that very empire of the first century and none other.
Consequently, since the setting is that first-century world, nothing in the Revelation has anything to do with the RCC and the USA! Nothing!
How many times must it be stated--John was shown those things which were in his day to shortly take because the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)? All of the fanciful speculations popular today stem from the unwillingness on the part of the modern church to place the Revelation is its prescribed setting.
What do the first and last chapters say about the timing of all the events found in the book? Furthermore, Jesus clearly said, "Behold, I am coming soon."
What "reborn" Roman Empire, JViello? The Scriptures no where speak of any such thing. This idea is a creation of futurists who do so because they MUST have a revised Roman Empire in order for their system to work!
If one places the Revelation in its proper historical setting (ca. A. D. 70), there is no need for a revised Roman Empire. The Roman nation spoken of in the Revelation is that very empire of the first century and none other.
Consequently, since the setting is that first-century world, nothing in the Revelation has anything to do with the RCC and the USA! Nothing!
How many times must it be stated--John was shown those things which were in his day to shortly take because the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)? All of the fanciful speculations popular today stem from the unwillingness on the part of the modern church to place the Revelation is its prescribed setting.
What do the first and last chapters say about the timing of all the events found in the book? Furthermore, Jesus clearly said, "Behold, I am coming soon."
Preterist
Quote:
How many times must it be stated--John was shown those things which were in his day to shortly take because the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)? All of the fanciful speculations popular today stem from the unwillingness on the part of the modern church to place the Revelation is its prescribed setting.
Preterist,
The whole idea of Christ coming shortly and the time being near is in the sense of 'quick.' As for “the end of the 'age',” what is being emphasized is that His coming will be very quick, like a flash of lightning (Matthew 24:27).
Revelation 3:11 22:7, 12, 20 all use the Greek word, tachu which means “quickly, speedily (without delay)”.
2 Peter 3 emphasizes the fact that it may be a long time coming. Peter is saying that God, dwelling in eternity, is not held hostage to time.
In Psalm 110:1 the Messiah is exalted to the Father’s right hand UNTIL all his enemies have been conquered, the last of which is death (see 1 Corinthians 15:23-27 which quotes Psalm 110).
Peter explains at the end of Acts 3, that according to God’s plan, heaven has received Jesus the Messiah UNTIL the time for the restoration of all things.”
Conclusion in a nutshell: Jesus will quickly come in judgment against His enemies. He will come to reward the righteous and conquer His enemies.
But WE are not the subjects and participants of either Matthew 24 or 1 Thessalonians 4. The context is clearly about those people of that first-century, pre-A.D. 70 time frame. WE are not the WE and WE are not the YE in those passages.
Preterist
I apologize. If you insist on such view, then I should have included preterism and should have said "Preterism and Millennialism comes not from Scripture but from faulty interpretation of the Old and New Testament prophecies."
IMO, it is more grievous of an error to claim the 70 AD return than it is to claim that the "rapture" (if understood correctly--there will be a gathering of all people) and the complete end of this world are two seperate events.
For scripture teaches a second coming (not two) in the future with everything coming to an abrupt end. Everyone will be judged accordingly, evil will be no more. Then the new heaven and earth will be put in place where I and many others will dwell forever.
Remember, God isn't bound in time and is eternal, 2000 years to him is but a thought.
What "reborn" Roman Empire, JViello? The Scriptures no where speak of any such thing. This idea is a creation of futurists who do so because they MUST have a revised Roman Empire in order for their system to work!
If one places the Revelation in its proper historical setting (ca. A. D. 70), there is no need for a revised Roman Empire. The Roman nation spoken of in the Revelation is that very empire of the first century and none other.
Consequently, since the setting is that first-century world, nothing in the Revelation has anything to do with the RCC and the USA! Nothing!
How many times must it be stated--John was shown those things which were in his day to shortly take because the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)? All of the fanciful speculations popular today stem from the unwillingness on the part of the modern church to place the Revelation is its prescribed setting.
What do the first and last chapters say about the timing of all the events found in the book? Furthermore, Jesus clearly said, "Behold, I am coming soon."
Preterist
Quote:
How many times must it be stated--John was shown those things which were in his day to shortly take because the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)? All of the fanciful speculations popular today stem from the unwillingness on the part of the modern church to place the Revelation is its prescribed setting.
I just re-read your post and saw something else I missed when I replied the first time.
Quote:
were in his day
Quote:
All of the fanciful speculations popular today stem from the unwillingness on the part of the modern church to place the Revelation is its prescribed setting.
This is a wrong conculsion on your part. Why do I say that? Let's look at Revelation...
Re 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet....
Most people assume John is saying, " I was in the spirit on Sunday," but that isn't what he was saying. He was saying, "I was in the spirit on the Day of the Lord." That means John saw the future. He was taken, ahead in his time, to the first day of the Lord's return to the earth. So his 'vision' couldn't have been 'for his day,' but some time in our near future.
What is the 'day of the Lord'? It's the 'day' Christ returns with rewards. Good for the righteous and bad for the wicked.
Here's one of many examples:
Isa 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
Last edited by mshipmate; 02-16-2009 at 07:52 AM..
Reason: typos
What "reborn" Roman Empire, JViello? The Scriptures no where speak of any such thing...The Roman nation spoken of in the Revelation is that very empire of the first century and none other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist
Consequently, since the setting is that first-century world, nothing in the Revelation has anything to do with the RCC and the USA! Nothing!
How many times must it be stated--John was shown those things which were in his day to shortly take because the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)?...What do the first and last chapters say about the timing of all the events found in the book? Furthermore, Jesus clearly said, "Behold, I am coming soon."
So how short is "short"? How soon is "soon"? How close is "near"?
If I told you I was going for a short bike ride, you'd probably expect me back in 10-15 minutes.
30 miles and several hours later...you'd be thinking differently and would probably wonder if I was "hurt" or something was wrong. 30 miles is a short ride to me. BTW: I'm a cyclist if you havn't figured it out yet.
How many times must it be stated that time is relative? Do you not understand how our own universe works and that the Lord is not subject to man's understanding of our own relative time?
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Nope!
