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Old 03-03-2009, 02:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Chapter 5 Verse 13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea and all that is in them, singing:

How could this have happened before 70 AD? We cannot view everything as symbolic.
again I'm not sure who this question is addressed to, but I can say I don't understand what you're asking?

John was taken to the future...some time after this year 2009 and saw these things that happened in the future or on the first day of the Millineum..so again I don't understand your remak?
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Old 03-03-2009, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Central US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
You are correct and your opinion is very interesting. We will get to the rest after chapter 22.
Guess I'm confused...we will get the rest of what after chapter 22...I was only mentioning chapter 4?
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Central US
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Revelation 5
I think it important to remember that this is the future that John was seeing while his spirit was taken up...

This chapter states that Jesus is the only one worthy to open the seals. Jesus is the Lamb in many verses.

I know that was short.....they praised Him...and worshipped Him.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Sorry for the confusion again folks. As mshipmate has pointed out several times John has been transported to the future beyond 2009. I thought we still had a few who adhered to the prior to 70AD theory and was trying to get and explination.

I am sorry sherry, I have confused myself as well, please continue.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:11 AM
 
Location: MI
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lol I can't imagine one not confusing themselves and others while reading Revelation.

Sometimes we expect moment by moment enlightenment...but the Lord reveals in His time. I appreciate the patience in going chapter by chapter through this book and Matthew.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sherryturner View Post
Revelation 5
I think it important to remember that this is the future that John was seeing while his spirit was taken up...

This chapter states that Jesus is the only one worthy to open the seals. Jesus is the Lamb in many verses.

I know that was short.....they praised Him...and worshipped Him.

Amen sherry...

My notes on chapter 6...

It was found that Jesus Christ is the only one that can break the seals, and reveal what is in the book. He is going to open the seals now for you and I. Praise His Holy Name.

v.1 Come and see.

God would never say, "Come and see", if He never expected you to see and understand the vision of John. The order from Jesus to John is to write what you see so that each of us living in this generation could come and see with understanding what we are about to read...

If you read v. 2 in a 'casual' manner it might look like this is Christ. However upon a closer look we see this rider has a 'bow,' but not the strength to back up his authority. What strength that he did have, was through deception. The rider of the white horse is Satan, in the role of the Antichrist.

The rider of this white horse is not the rider of the white horse who comes with a rainbow around his head, and a rainbow around the throne he leaves. This "bow" in the Greek is a cheap fabric, or imitation.

In the Greek it's called "toxon". His grandeur will be cheap, yet convincing.

"bow" - 5115 toxon (tox'-on); from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric): KJV-- bow.

This first seal we will see in detail in the ninth chapter. It takes place after the fifth trumpet sounds.

In the nineteenth chapter we will see the true Christ coming in all his glory, and then this first rider of the white horse will go to the pit. The first rider of the white horse does not come in war, for no arrows are mentioned; but in religious peace. This is important to remember, for it could bring about the great deception.

We are told to open our eyes and understand this second seal.

red horse and rider:"Power was given to take peace from the earth."

True peace is that peace that comes only from God, through our Lord Jesus Christ.

This 'war' of deception is well underway, and it will be fierce. You simply will not stand against the rider of the red horse, unless you are prepared with your armor completely on and in place, and mentally ready for their spiritual attacks [see Ephesians 6:10-20].

black horse and rider:Your dollar doesn't buy much anymore these days.

Amos 8 warned us a long time ago about the famine in the end times would not be for a lack of bread, but for hearing the Word of God.

Jesus told us in Mark 13:8, "And nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:" We have had two world wars leading into this final generation. "And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and their shall be famine [remember Amos 8], and troubles:"

This sounds like the news reports we have had over the past 50-years. Jesus then said, "These are the beginnings of *sorrows."

*the word sorrows means birth pains. Those of you who have children know how labor pains work. They start out slow and far apart and then they increase in intensity and closeness.

v.8 The word "beast" in this verse is not translated like the other verses [living creatures], but in the Greek it is "therion", and means "wild, venomous, poisonous".

opened the fifth seal:Those souls have died and are with the Father in Heaven.

sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;"

Revelation 6:13 "And the *stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely [unripe] figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

*stars.. We all know there are symbols in the Bible. Because of how the word 'star' used other place in the book of Revelation, I don't think these are literal stars.

Rev. 9:1 ¶ And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to *him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And *he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit

*a plain symbol depicting some created being.

Also We use the word "star" in our English language just like it is used in Revelation 8 and 9. We speak literally of the stars in the heavens. But we also refer symbolically to stars on the athletic field or in the movie industry.

Where context and the laws of grammar permit, follow the plain interpretation all the way through the Book.

vv14-17 The heavens open and Christ returns and there will be a mighty shaking. God shook the earth once before and He will shake it again:

Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

Those "mountains" are "nations," and they will not be moved, but removed and not exist as governing bodies. There will be only Christ's Kingdom left on this earth, as we move into the Millennium age of Christ's kingdom.

Once again when reading Revelation it's important to remember the Book of Revelation speaks of things past (what John saw in chapter 1, the vision of the glorified Christ); of things present (the conditions in the seven churches as described in chapters 2 and 3); of things future (the things that will take place at the close of the age--the scene in heaven, the tribulation on earth, the millennial age, and the eternal state, as seen in chapters 4-22)
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Canada
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In Rev 9:1 the "star" is Satan. As part of God's plan, Satan came down to earth with the key to the Bottomless Pit to release the demons... with their leader Abaddon... to start the Great Tribulation.
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilvan View Post
In Rev 9:1 the "star" is Satan. As part of God's plan, Satan came down to earth with the key to the Bottomless Pit to release the demons... with their leader Abaddon... to start the Great Tribulation.

Hi wilvan,
Yes I agree the 'star' in 9:1 is satan, but Abaddon and
Apollyon are names that satan goes by, and he (satan) releases the fallen angels (not demons) mentioned in Jude:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of *the great day.

*the same as the Lord's day in Rev. 1:10, another verse to show us John was speaking of the last days.

Edited to add:

"The day of the Lord" being yet future, it follows that the whole book must concern the things belonging to "that day", and consequently is wholly prophecy. Though partial adumbrations of judgment may be traced in connection with affairs of past history, yet the significant, solemn warning here (1:10) that the "judgments" in Revelation relate to the day of the Lord, "the day of vengeance" (cp. Isa. 61:2; 63:4, &c.), makes it clear that the book concerns the future, and the day of the unveiling (the Apocalypse) of the great "King of kings and Lord of lords"...when every eye shall see and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord!!

Last edited by mshipmate; 03-05-2009 at 01:35 PM.. Reason: edited to add something
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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I am sorry but looking at chapter six I still see a world wide thing happening and not a local thing. At the time of Revelation being written the entire world was not yet populated as it is now.
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:51 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,993,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I am sorry but looking at chapter six I still see a world wide thing happening and not a local thing. At the time of Revelation being written the entire world was not yet populated as it is now.

Robin,
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're asking or stating? Could you perhaps re-word it? thx
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