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"He lived His life as a perfect example of how we should live ours"
where His battered body remained for three days, during which time He visited Paradise ?!!!
"Okay, how'd I do? Did I pass? Do I believe in the right Jesus?"
Answer: You failed. You do not believe in the right Jesus.
Jesus was not our example, he was our subsitute. Hell is not paradise. Hell is outer darkness. A place reserved for those who see Jesus other than our subsitute. A place for those who try to enter heaven "through my works of obedience"
You're trying to become perfect, God demands to be perfect.
I don't believe in the right Jesus because of those answers? But you do, based on yours? So I'm going to Hell and you're going to Heaven?
1. Did I not say that Jesus took upon himself our sins, assumed our guilt and paid the price for the debt we incurred with God? That means he was our "substitute," as you put it. He also provided us with an example of how we should treat one another. He did this throughout His ministry. I would be happy to provide you with as many passages as necessary to prove my point, but I think you already know I'm right.
2. Where did I say that Hell is Paradise? Jesus Christ told the thief who hung next to Him on the cross that He's see him in Paradise on that very day (the day they both died). Unless you think He was lying, it's a safe bet that He did, in fact, see the man and that it was in Paradise. He also ministered to the spirits in Prison.
3. Okay, I see you're one of those individuals who believes that all we have to do to go to Heaven is believe in Christ. We bear no responsibility whatsoever to keep His commandments. We can live any way we choose but because we believe in Christ, nothing else matters. And it follows that if this is what you believe, you believe that right now you are perfect. Faith without works truly is dead, my friend. That's as Biblical as anything you've said. By the way, I guess you don't believe that the world's 1 billion Catholics are Christians either, since they also reject the doctrine of Sola Fide.
I'm guessing that you are going to be very lonely in Heaven. Just you and God and two or three other people who choose exactly the right words to express their beliefs. They must include every word or phrase you'd have used, but can't add anything you hadn't thought to mention. Do you really think God is as exclusionary as you are?
Please don't put words in my mouth. again I never said who is going to hell or heaven, I only know what is a Christian from reading the bible.
Actually, you have not defined the word "Christian" from reading the Bible. You have used your own beliefs, which are clearly biblically based, but molded by your own interpretation and understanding, to make up a list of what a Christian must believe. There is nowhere in the Bible where we are told that a person must believe any of those things to be called a "Christian." I'm sorry if I put words into your mouth, but based on your next comment, I don't think I am far from wrong.
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I don't know if you are a Mormon or a JW but you must agree we don't worship the same Jesus? and if we don't then either you are right which doesn't matter because I get a second chance or I am right and if you are a mormon or JW then you are in trouble.
So, if I were a Mormon or a JW, I would not go to Heaven? And that is because I didn't meet your criteria for being a Christian? That's because I believed in the "wrong" Jesus, or more specifically, that there was some detail about Jesus on which I was wrong? So which words, exactly, did I put in your mouth?
By the way, you have jumped to the assumption that I am a Mormon or a JW and by that assumption have determined that I am "in trouble" (meaning what, I don't know, since you have already said you don't know who is going to heaven or hell). My denomination is immaterial at this point, unless you believe entrance to Heaven is determined along denominational lines. I told you in quite a bit of depth about my Jesus. Would you mind telling me what about my Jesus makes Him the "wrong" one? You see, I really do want to believe in the "right" Jesus, even though I seriously can't see God sending someone to Hell because of a well-intentioned misunderstanding.
Actually, you have not defined the word "Christian" from reading the Bible. You have used your own beliefs, which are clearly biblically based, but molded by your own interpretation and understanding, to make up a list of what a Christian must believe. There is nowhere in the Bible where we are told that a person must believe any of those things to be called a "Christian." I'm sorry if I put words into your mouth, but based on your next comment, I don't think I am far from wrong.
So, if I were a Mormon or a JW, I would not go to Heaven? And that is because I didn't meet your criteria for being a Christian? That's because I believed in the "wrong" Jesus, or more specifically, that there was some detail about Jesus on which I was wrong? So which words, exactly, did I put in your mouth?
By the way, you have jumped to the assumption that I am a Mormon or a JW and by that assumption have determined that I am "in trouble" (meaning what, I don't know, since you have already said you don't know who is going to heaven or hell). My denomination is immaterial at this point, unless you believe entrance to Heaven is determined along denominational lines. I told you in quite a bit of depth about my Jesus. Would you mind telling me what about my Jesus makes Him the "wrong" one? You see, I really do want to believe in the "right" Jesus, even though I seriously can't see God sending someone to Hell because of a well-intentioned misunderstanding.
The JWs teach that they are the only ones in the truth, and that they are truely worshipping Jehovah. I have learned to take everyone's different interpretation of the bible and respect it, but fellowship with christians who mainly have the same basic interpretation of the bible as I do. Let's give God the glory and not the devil the victory in arguing over who's right or wrong about their interpretation of the bible.
The JWs teach that they are the only ones in the truth, and that they are truely worshipping Jehovah. I have learned to take everyone's different interpretation of the bible and respect it, but fellowship with christians who mainly have the same basic interpretation of the bible as I do.
I can appreciate what you're saying, but for two people to have exactly the same interpretation of the Bible, they would have to belong to the same denomination. Baptists share some doctrines with Lutherans, for example, and other doctrines with Methodists. But no two denominations will agree on every doctrine. I guess that's the point of this thread, huh? To determine which doctrines are an absolute must. The problem is, even the Bible doesn't clear up that bone of contention.
The JWs teach that they are the only ones in the truth, and that they are truely worshipping Jehovah. I have learned to take everyone's different interpretation of the bible and respect it, but fellowship with christians who mainly have the same basic interpretation of the bible as I do.
Antredd, how does this correlate with the statement made in the QP? Do you see someone who has what you believe to be a non-Christian belief system to be a non Christian? Just asking. God bless.
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We may be members of different Chrisitan religions but the core to our beliefs where we must all agree sits on these major doctrines which include the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. To remove or refute any of these central doctrines is to make the belief system non-Christian
I think that, for starters, if we're going to base who is or is not a Christian on the "Christian belief system," we can't just decide what we believe today and assume that anyone who believes differently is wrong. We really have to go back to Christ's time. We have to look at the writings of the Apostles and see what they taught. We can't jump a head three or four hundred years and insist that a Christian must believe something we have no record that 1st century Christians believed.
We may be members of different Chrisitan religions but the core to our beliefs where we must all agree sits on these major doctrines which include the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. To remove or refute any of these central doctrines is to make the belief system non-Christian.
Yes. They are all essential. If you deny those, you are not a Christian.
I can appreciate what you're saying, but for two people to have exactly the same interpretation of the Bible, they would have to belong to the same denomination. Baptists share some doctrines with Lutherans, for example, and other doctrines with Methodists. But no two denominations will agree on every doctrine. I guess that's the point of this thread, huh? To determine which doctrines are an absolute must. The problem is, even the Bible doesn't clear up that bone of contention.
Yes you are right, and I think that's where we can sit down and discuss what are essentials to our christian faith and what we can be in disagreement. I have heard my pastor say that many times that we can disagree over non essentials and still love each other in Christ and not be so dang on divisive about it, if you are getting what I am trying to say.
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But you do, based on yours? So I'm going to Hell and you're going to Heaven?
