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Sex is a basic human need so how could it possibly be a sin? This is just a way for organized religion to control you.
So is defecating . . . but we should not be doing it indiscriminately whenever, wherever and however the need arises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach
If you can not control yourself..then some rules to follow might help...Sex is a drive like hunger- It is the life force to a degree. You can not sit down for dinner and start early eating every bodies food...letting the rest of the people go hungry...
If you know you are dealing with another man's wive- and you can seduce her (draw her away) - You don't just go for it and damage the husband- wife and children...just because you don't want to control your "human need" ) There are restrictions on needs because other people in the world have a right to security and happiness.
So it can be a sin - if you use the life force in a perverse manner that does not generate something good...If you get in bed with a woman that you do not love...and she becomes connected to you emotionally- and you dispose of her bringing her distress- that is a sin... So sex on it's own is not a sin- it's good- but if it is misused then it's bad- You have to go with the good and natural flow of things- Sin is like being an idiot and driving the wrong way up a one way street- you do it often enough there will be impact...you may crash and kill yourself..."The wages of sin are death" - It's not a mystic thing- it's physics...do the wrong thing and there will be negative and harmful results.
This is the first time I have encountered someone who actually understands the actual definition of sin and its consequences . . . lack of self-control that is devoid of agape love. Any time we do not control our urges under the constraint of agape love . . . we "sin." It is not WHAT we do . . . but WHY and WHAT its impact is on others. ANYTHING NOT DONE in agape "love of God and each other" can be "sin."
The Christian over-obsession with things sexual stems from a complete lack of understanding of human evolution. No amount of denialism can alter the fact that evolution theory has human prehistory accurately depicted. The earliest prohibitions among human species probably were established to cover the most primitive and savage evolutionary stages of human existence. That is when differentiation of species was probably still minimal and sex could probably even produce chimera. Sex is such a dominant drive that they would indiscriminately fornicate with anything that moved whenever they had the urge. The original "adultery" of the "Sodom and Gomorrah" legend was probably indiscriminate bestiality and fornication . . . with its potentially "adulterating" results.
The point to take from this re-orientation of our sense of prehistory using an understanding of evolution is that . . . we have no idea WHEN, HOW or IF any of the significant stories, legends and myths ACTUALLY occurred in the extensive evolution of human prehistory . . . because time was not used linearly to order the events of primitive savages. Their cognitive lives were minimalist. There certainly was no linear sense of time for the earliest recordings of events by our earliest ancestors . . . so determining WHEN anything occurred based on the eventual ordering in the much later (eons) more literate stages of human development is preposterous. The stories, legends and myths had to be passed down orally . . . ordered sequentially based on their importance and significance (not when) . . . in preliterate and uncivilized tribes for uncounted eons (and in many versions) before even the advent of alphabets and literacy. The concepts formed and recorded could not be very cognitively sophisticated or nuanced because they were barely evolved cognitively beyond the beasts themselves when they were first formed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dba07
Sure I despise adultery, rape, etc and they are wrong. I'm speaking to extremists who believe any premarital intercourse is a sin. Or homosexual sex.
Any selfish, indiscriminate sex devoid of agape love or concern for its actual impact on others is "sin." But so is ANY selfish, indiscriminate satisfaction of our drives that is devoid of agape love and concern for its impact on others.
It makes me so sad to see posts like this a couple years ago by Ilene, and to see her posts now saying she's lost faith in God.
Yes I miss the old Ilene as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
So if he doesn't condone it himself what is he doing in it?...
Like anyone else he is caught up in the flesh and can't quit break free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
Marriage is between A man and A woman...He never said one man and one woman...
Mat 19:4 But answering, He said to them, Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning "created them male and female"? Gen. 1:27
Mat 19:5 And He said, "For this reason a man shall leave father and mother, and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." Gen. 2:24
Mat 19:6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, let not man separate.
Many change it around a little with the "One and One" to claim that polygamy is a sin...
He did say husband and wife not husbands and wives. And the account in Genesis is Adam and Eve not Jenny, and Sue, and Mary, and Martha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
My uncle Clarence, a 33rd degree Mason, accepted Yeshua on his death bed in the Hoapital, his neighbor was a preacher of a small church in Trenton, NJ...And visited him at the hospital on his last day...My uncle said afterwards that he wished he had done this 50 years ago...
It is good that he saw the error of his ways before the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
I was going to point that out if you did not...If I remember my research correctly, the OT way of marrying was to walk through the town holding hands so everyone could see you and they considered you bonded, there was no civil marriage ceremnonies back then, it was a consentual agreement between the two...There is also Mosaic Law that states that sex before marriage within the confines of an engagement was legal and that any children born during that time were considered legitamate...The engagement was viewed just as seriously as was the marriage in that if one had relations with another outside the confines of the engagement process it was considered adultry, and one was stoned for that...Our society today does not take engagement as seriously and have the attitude of, 'Well, we ain't married yet so I can screw whoever I want.'...If one is not going to take their engagement seriously, why woud they ever take their marriage seriously?...
At least you are doing research unlike many others who just spout talking points as facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
I think Yeshua was speaking of lusting after another's wife, for He was speaking of adultry and not fornication, it seems to link with the Mosaic Law that if one even looks at the little finger of an engaged or married woman he has already commited adutry with her in his heart...
Looks with lust in ones heart, and this can be cheating on you future spouse, remember the Lord knows the beginning from the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dba07
Sex is a basic human need so how could it possibly be a sin? This is just a way for organized religion to control you.
Not a need but a desire, a temptation and giving in is the sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
Where exactly does it state this?...
I think I addressed that earlier, but keep doing your research and you will see it even without the exact words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
Let's not forget the 'Concubines' that many of the 'Righteous' men of the OT had in addition to their wives, so, if HaShem had a problem with it, why did He not say something?....
And let's not forget all the problems that come with those Concubines and extra wives. Jacob had 2 wives and 2 Concubines who produced his twelve sons, read that story and see all his problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach
If you can not control yourself..then some rules to follow might help...Sex is a drive like hunger- It is the life force to a degree. You can not sit down for dinner and start early eating every bodies food...letting the rest of the people go hungry...
If you know you are dealing with another man's wive- and you can seduce her (draw her away) - You don't just go for it and damage the husband- wife and children...just because you don't want to control your "human need" ) There are restrictions on needs because other people in the world have a right to security and happiness.
So it can be a sin - if you use the life force in a perverse manner that does not generate something good...If you get in bed with a woman that you do not love...and she becomes connected to you emotionally- and you dispose of her bringing her distress- that is a sin... So sex on it's own is not a sin- it's good- but if it is misused then it's bad- You have to go with the good and natural flow of things- Sin is like being an idiot and driving the wrong way up a one way street- you do it often enough there will be impact...you may crash and kill yourself..."The wages of sin are death" - It's not a mystic thing- it's physics...do the wrong thing and there will be negative and harmful results.
Very enlightening, I see others do their research as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dba07
Sure I despise adultery, rape, etc and they are wrong. I'm speaking to extremists who believe any premarital intercourse is a sin. Or homosexual sex.
Would you want your spouse being with someone else before you, sharing what should be yours to share and enjoy? Would you want your spouse to have an STD? Someone elses child? These things cheapen your experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
So is defecating . . . but we should not be doing it indiscriminately whenever, wherever and however the need arises.
This is the first time I have encountered someone who actually understands the actual definition of sin and its consequences . . . lack of self-control that is devoid of agape love. Any time we do not control our urges under the constraint of agape love . . . we "sin." It is not WHAT we do . . . but WHY and WHAT its impact is on others. ANYTHING NOT DONE in agape "love of God and each other" can be "sin."
The Christian over-obsession with things sexual stems from a complete lack of understanding of human evolution. No amount of denialism can alter the fact that evolution theory has human prehistory accurately depicted. The earliest prohibitions among human species probably were established to cover the most primitive and savage evolutionary stages of human existence. That is when differentiation of species was probably still minimal and sex could probably even produce chimera. Sex is such a dominant drive that they would indiscriminately fornicate with anything that moved whenever they had the urge. The original "adultery" of the "Sodom and Gomorrah" legend was probably indiscriminate bestiality and fornication . . . with its potentially "adulterating" results.
The point to take from this re-orientation of our sense of prehistory using an understanding of evolution is that . . . we have no idea WHEN, HOW or IF any of the significant stories, legends and myths ACTUALLY occurred in the extensive evolution of human prehistory . . . because time was not used linearly to order the events of primitive savages. Their cognitive lives were minimalist. There certainly was no linear sense of time for the earliest recordings of events by our earliest ancestors . . . so determining WHEN anything occurred based on the eventual ordering in the much later (eons) more literate stages of human development is preposterous. The stories, legends and myths had to be passed down orally . . . ordered sequentially based on their importance and significance (not when) . . . in preliterate and uncivilized tribes for uncounted eons (and in many versions) before even the advent of alphabets and literacy. The concepts formed and recorded could not be very cognitively sophisticated or nuanced because they were barely evolved cognitively beyond the beasts themselves when they were first formed.
Any selfish, indiscriminate sex devoid of agape love or concern for its actual impact on others is "sin." But so is ANY selfish, indiscriminate satisfaction of our drives that is devoid of agape love and concern for its impact on others.
You know we may not agree 100% but I did miss you. You are truely a challenging friend but friend just the same. Agape Love is the key many ignore.
You know we may not agree 100% but I did miss you. You are truely a challenging friend but friend just the same. Agape Love is the key many ignore.
The forum is truly addicting and I could not stay away, my friend. I just needed to give my stalkers time to find other targets and leave me alone. I missed you as well, my brother.
Actually getting right with the Lord is accepting Jesus into ones heart from there you find that if you focus on what Gods wants rather than what you want and gradually grow in Christ. As for the vast majority their last minute atonement never comes and they will be judged by their relationship with or without the Lord.
So I might have missed it, but did you ever give an update on your son and his situation?
So I might have missed it, but did you ever give an update on your son and his situation?
Well he is still caught up in the flesh, been threw at least 7 girls he thought was the one and currently single. He has a porn addiction that has cost him several relationships. I have talked with him and still talk with him weekly over his situation but he wants to get married but I think he is persuing the wrong type of girls and not taking the relationships seriously. But he is 21 and not yet settled down.
Well he is still caught up in the flesh, been threw at least 7 girls he thought was the one and currently single. He has a porn addiction that has cost him several relationships. I have talked with him and still talk with him weekly over his situation but he wants to get married but I think he is persuing the wrong type of girls and not taking the relationships seriously. But he is 21 and not yet settled down.
Sounds like he needs a strong man in his life. Is his father involved?
I think sexual immorality goes beyond sexual acts. I was recently disturbed by an act of what I consider to be sexual immorality. The pastor's wife at a local Baptist church posted a picture of herself over the internet in a string bikini w/ the caption "fit and over 40". While I think it is admirable to stay fit no matter what your age. I also think it is wrong for the first lady of a church to pose in and expose herself over the internet without care of what her children will think and what ridicule they may suffer for her indiscretion...
I think sexual immorality goes beyond sexual acts. I was recently disturbed by an act of what I consider to be sexual immorality. The pastor's wife at a local Baptist church posted a picture of herself over the internet in a string bikini w/ the caption "fit and over 40". While I think it is admirable to stay fit no matter what your age. I also think it is wrong for the first lady of a church to pose in and expose herself over the internet without care of what her children will think and what ridicule they may suffer for her indiscretion...
Sorry honey, but what's really wrong with that story is YOUR judgement of your pastor's wife.
So is defecating . . . but we should not be doing it indiscriminately whenever, wherever and however the need arises.
This is the first time I have encountered someone who actually understands the actual definition of sin and its consequences . . . lack of self-control that is devoid of agape love. Any time we do not control our urges under the constraint of agape love . . . we "sin." It is not WHAT we do . . . but WHY and WHAT its impact is on others. ANYTHING NOT DONE in agape "love of God and each other" can be "sin."
The Christian over-obsession with things sexual stems from a complete lack of understanding of human evolution. No amount of denialism can alter the fact that evolution theory has human prehistory accurately depicted. The earliest prohibitions among human species probably were established to cover the most primitive and savage evolutionary stages of human existence. That is when differentiation of species was probably still minimal and sex could probably even produce chimera. Sex is such a dominant drive that they would indiscriminately fornicate with anything that moved whenever they had the urge. The original "adultery" of the "Sodom and Gomorrah" legend was probably indiscriminate bestiality and fornication . . . with its potentially "adulterating" results.
The point to take from this re-orientation of our sense of prehistory using an understanding of evolution is that . . . we have no idea WHEN, HOW or IF any of the significant stories, legends and myths ACTUALLY occurred in the extensive evolution of human prehistory . . . because time was not used linearly to order the events of primitive savages. Their cognitive lives were minimalist. There certainly was no linear sense of time for the earliest recordings of events by our earliest ancestors . . . so determining WHEN anything occurred based on the eventual ordering in the much later (eons) more literate stages of human development is preposterous. The stories, legends and myths had to be passed down orally . . . ordered sequentially based on their importance and significance (not when) . . . in preliterate and uncivilized tribes for uncounted eons (and in many versions) before even the advent of alphabets and literacy. The concepts formed and recorded could not be very cognitively sophisticated or nuanced because they were barely evolved cognitively beyond the beasts themselves when they were first formed.
Any selfish, indiscriminate sex devoid of agape love or concern for its actual impact on others is "sin." But so is ANY selfish, indiscriminate satisfaction of our drives that is devoid of agape love and concern for its impact on others.
The sexual revolution in the late 60s brought about some good things in so far as people meeting each other in a more honest and simplistic manner...and couples joining quickly - and some going on for decades in a marriage of love- BUT there was the key phrase that was damaging..and sin laden..."If it feels good, do it"/
This instruction was the start of more western decadence...or disorder. It opened up the doors same sex hedonism and to the idea of multiple partners both in "orientations" - If a young man discovered that getting oral sex from another male felt good...They would normalize the action ...and an orientation would be created- It in that instance was a choice...but as some gays say- they have no choice..they are overcome by their base need for pleasure from any source...I do believe there are mutations sexually but they in my mind fall into the natural eunuch classification.
Adultery is a sin- If you look at the word seduce- which means to draw away...or in mischief separate a mating pair..for the sake of sex..It would not be so bad if the seducer was going to prove to be a better and more loving mate...but what adultery is- Is the intentional destruction of a mating pair- NOT an attempt to replace the mate- but simply to wreck a relationship and the sex is secondary...Rarely if ever does a person practicing adultery actually pair up with those they sin in- The evil of the act seems to provide them satisfaction- It is a perversity.
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Any time we do not control our urges under the constraint of agape love . . . we "sin." It is not WHAT we do . . . but WHY and WHAT its impact is on others. ANYTHING NOT DONE in agape "love of God and each other" can be "sin."
