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Once again from the "Evangelical Pope" John MacArthur
"The Amazing Truth of the Bible"
Grace to You Audio Player (http://www.gty.org/AudioPlayer/Sermons/1345 - broken link)
You see, in history past, we had an interesting thing. You study the history of the church, for the most part, and you find this, that in the history of the church in the past years, it was the skeptics versus the Christians. I mean, it was pretty clearly drawn. The skeptics said, "The Bible's not true. It contains errors." The Christians said, "It is true. It does not contain errors." But recently it's the Christians against the Christians. And I use the word "Christian" in one sense, at least, advisedly. It's the so-called Christians against the true Christians. And maybe some critics of Biblical inerrancy are really born again. That even adds greater dimension to the miracle of the new birth. But today we not only have to fight the skeptics outside theology, we've got to fight people who call themselves Christians and go around propagating the fact that the Bible has errors.
Grace to You Audio Player (http://www.gty.org/AudioPlayer/Sermons/1345 - broken link)
It's pretty clear that the adversity here on this forum is between those that adhere to contemporary teachings vs. those that once did, and came out of it. (I'm not pitting one group against the other.)
But I would like to say that I know exactly where most everyone is coming from because I've been through it myself, and I think a lot of the Universalists can say the same thing. That's one thing I feel that needs to be considered by the adherents.
In the scheme of life and things that have to do with heaven, does it really matter what one believes? I mean, God isn't religious and He would never pick one religion over another. When it comes right down to it, it's humans who are picky about who is right and who is wrong. God sees us as Love. Humans see each other as the competition, even those who believe in the same religion. Can you honestly say that you love others unconditionally when you are worried about what they are doing with their own life? A life that God gave them so they can become their own individual?
You all say you want to save others so you preach to them the gospel. Does that really work? If you put the gospel away and go around accepting others for who they and for the fact that they are also children of God, wouldn't that get you better results than forcing people to believe what you believe? jesus didn't tell people they had to read the Torah in order to hang out with Him. He didn't even care who He hung out with. He led people by example and Love, not a book or religion. A true christian, no matter what kind of christian, will do exactly what Jesus did.
Perhaps the only errors in the bible are in the many translations, versions of translations, and the interpretations of man to suit his "religion"...
What a magnificent gift grace and the Holy Spirit are..Grace for forgiveness, because we are not perfect and the Holy Spirit to help us understand the things others sometimes confuse for us
But recently it's the Christians against the Christians. And I use the word "Christian" in one sense, at least, advisedly. It's the so-called Christians against the true Christians. And maybe some critics of Biblical inerrancy are really born again. That even adds greater dimension to the miracle of the new birth. But today we not only have to fight the skeptics outside theology, we've got to fight people who call themselves Christians and go around propagating the fact that the Bible has errors.
Compare and contrast this with a quote from the 2nd century :
Quote:
“For as they are heretics, they cannot be true Christians, because it is not from Christ that they get that which they pursue of their own mere choice, and from the pursuit incur and admit the name of heretics. Thus, not being Christians, they have acquired no right to the Christian Scriptures; and it may be very fairly said to them, “Who are you? When and whence did you come? As you are none of mine, what have you to do with that which is mine?” (Tertullian, The Prescription against Heretics”)
Different millennium, same argument about who's the real christian. Kind of puts a damper on "things are different now", no?
I still don't understand why folks who believe that ALL will come to God eventually with no choice in the matter . . . why they fight now for who is right, and who is wrong.
If it is God that brings us to Him . . . where is your place in that battle and when did God appoint you to fight the good fight for/with Him? At what point did it become "God draw us to him" to "we draw people to God?"
If, indeed, all come to God eventually, every single being, then what is your purpose now of proving yourself correct, and others wrong?
And if ALL come to God . . . who is it that this verse describes?
Matthew 7:13, 14--“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Indicates there are those who don't find it? They go to Heaven too?
I still don't understand why folks who believe that ALL will come to God eventually with no choice in the matter . . . why they fight now for who is right, and who is wrong.
If it is God that brings us to Him . . . where is your place in that battle and when did God appoint you to fight the good fight for/with Him? At what point did it become "God draw us to him" to "we draw people to God?"
If, indeed, all come to God eventually, every single being, then what is your purpose now of proving yourself correct, and others wrong?
And if ALL come to God . . . who is it that this verse describes?
Matthew 7:13, 14--“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Indicates there are those who don't find it? They go to Heaven too?
At its most basic element, we all defend what we consider to be a slandering or misrepresentation of the One we love and owe everything to. Don't we all feel that the "other side" is "harming the chances" of those who are seeking?
Personally, I believe the process of bringing in the lost is still a first fruits mission (like most others, even if they don't understand the phrase), but I also believe we can't give what we don't have.
I want Him, for without Him I don't have anything worth giving. Did I mention misrepresentation...?
I still don't understand why folks who believe that ALL will come to God eventually with no choice in the matter . . . why they fight now for who is right, and who is wrong.
If it is God that brings us to Him . . . where is your place in that battle and when did God appoint you to fight the good fight for/with Him? At what point did it become "God draw us to him" to "we draw people to God?"
If, indeed, all come to God eventually, every single being, then what is your purpose now of proving yourself correct, and others wrong?
And if ALL come to God . . . who is it that this verse describes?
Matthew 7:13, 14--“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Indicates there are those who don't find it? They go to Heaven too?
The Bible commands Christians to defend the faith. Spirit and logic;Spirit from God and logic from us.
(1 Peter 3:15) 15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
(2 Corinthians 10:5) 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
(Titus 1:9) 9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 05-29-2009 at 12:04 PM..
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