Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The other day I heard a sermon from Pastor John Macarthur where he was speaking about the end times and IF the end times was to happen during our lifetime that many of us who professed to be Christians are predestined to be here during it. That is God's will for our lives and there is no use in fighting because we will be here. WOW! I could be here during the tribulation even if I didn't want to be, no matter how hard I tried to love God and seek the truth, it still will not get me out of the situation. That was and still is absolutely sobering for me so much so that I find myself walking a line that I can fall on either side. What an absolutely sobering thought?
yes, indeed it is a sobering thought. I, for one, do not want to be here, but if I am to be the so be it. I just pray that I will stay on the side that I am. I pray all will keep their faith.
One thing about it, God gave us the truth in the bible. Some will lose faith...we know this, it is extremely important to not jump that fence...this will help keep me grounded in my faith. I thank God for giving us knowledge through the bible.
It is. Do you happen to have Scripture references he might have given?
I should have been clearer in my lingo. I admit I got a lilittle emotional because it has been eye opening for me but when I say, no matter how hard an individual tries to want know God or love God he can't because the bible is clear that is impossible.
(Romans 8:7-8)
"7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
We want to be closer to Him, get to know Him because God makes it so. We can't do it without God.
John 6:44
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."
Rom 5:9 Much rather, then, being now justified in His blood, we shall be saved from indignation, through Him."
1Th 1:10 and to be waiting for His Son out of the heavens, Whom He rouses from among the dead, Jesus, our Rescuer out of the coming indignation."
1Th 5:9 for God did not appoint us to indignation, but to the procuring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
We will not be in the great tribulation. We believers of the nations shall be taken out prior to the man of sin being revealed and it is from him that the great tribulation upon believing Jews for 3 and 1/2 years.
I should have been clearer in my lingo. I admit I got a lilittle emotional because it has been eye opening for me but when I say, no matter how hard an individual tries to want know God or love God he can't because the bible is clear that is impossible.
(Romans 8:7-8)
"7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
We want to be closer to Him, get to know Him because God makes it so. We can't do it without God.
John 6:44
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."
This is hard to wrap my mind around. I don't suppose you have a link to what you listened to or a transcript? Sorry to make you work at this. lol I'm just curious to hear or read the message. Thanks!
The other day I heard a sermon from Pastor John Macarthur where he was speaking about the end times and IF the end times was to happen during our lifetime that many of us who professed to be Christians are predestined to be here during it. That is God's will for our lives and there is no use in fighting because we will be here. WOW! I could be here during the tribulation even if I didn't want to be, no matter how hard I tried to love God and seek the truth, it still will not get me out of the situation. That was and still is absolutely sobering for me so much so that I find myself walking a line that I can fall on either side. What an absolutely sobering thought?
Christians, like the bible, should blend the verses of predestination and free-will. It is not one or the other, it's both. It's a very hard concept to try and understand but it's there.
We are all predestined for a certain will and path but we have the free-will to step off that path.
Free-will taken too far leads to itchy ear doctrines and making the bible say what we want it to. Predestination taken to far (which I think is implied in your OP) takes the assurance of salvation and our confidence in Christ from us.
I've also never understood why Calvinists preach. If I'm going to saved no matter what I or anyone else does, then why even preach, pray, give, or obey.
It's all for nothing.......same outcome either way. (And that's not biblical!)
Christians, like the bible, should blend the verses of predestination and free-will. It is not one or the other, it's both. It's a very hard concept to try and understand but it's there.
We are all predestined for a certain will and path but we have the free-will to step off that path.
Free-will taken too far leads to itchy ear doctrines and making the bible say what we want it to. Predestination taken to far (which I think is implied in your OP) takes the assurance of salvation and our confidence in Christ from us.
I've also never understood why Calvinists preach. If I'm going to saved no matter what I or anyone else does, then why even preach, pray, give, or obey.
It's all for nothing.......same outcome either way. (And that's not biblical!)
I agree "all or nothing" is not biblical
Free will is a myth by the world's standards. We are not free, we are bound either in sin or righteousness. I beg to differ it IS biblical, all through the bible is election, chosen, predestination. What made Moses so special, Abraham, Noah even the Jews? because God chose them and made them righteous in His sight not because of what they did or who they are.
A loss of assurance is a great meter for a Christian to examine themselves. I know I have lost my assurance before, in fact I am going through it right now. Have you?
If you are saved then you have become a new creature, you do not desire to sin no more, you have grown to hate sin because God changed you. Jesus has become irresistable to you. You want to please Him, you want to obey, follow His commands, study His word. You can not help but bear fruit. We can't do it by ourselves. Even if you wanted to you can NEVER leave if He truly saved you.
Free will is a myth by the world's standards. We are not free, we are bound either in sin or righteousness. I beg to differ it IS biblical, all through the bible is election, chosen, predestination. What made Moses so special, Abraham, Noah even the Jews? because God chose them and made them righteous in His sight not because of what they did or who they are.
A loss of assurance is a great meter for a Christian to examine themselves. I know I have lost my assurance before, in fact I am going through it right now. Have you?
If you are saved then you have become a new creature, you do not desire to sin no more, you have grown to hate sin because God changed you. Jesus has become irresistable to you. You want to please Him, you want to obey, follow His commands, study His word. You can not help but bear fruit. We can't do it by ourselves. Even if you wanted to you can NEVER leave if He truly saved you.
Fundy, I have to consider what you say in light of your new salvation.
I have read, studied, prayed, sought counsel, and really begged God to help me through some of these more difficult teachings/beliefs.
Calvinism is a lie. I know you don't believe me and you have shown time and again that you really aren't receptive to loving conversations about our faith and civilly discussing things you don't believe in, so I don't think actually trying to show you anything biblical would be very productive. You have your view on every issue and I've yet to see you consider what your brothers and sisters with different views have to say.
If free-will is a myth, why do you pass out tracts and share the gospel?
You realize that in your belief, if you're bring honest with those you are talking to, what you are doing has no bearing and part of your gospel message HAS TO INCLUDE a disclaimer that if the person you're talking to isn't 'worth it' to God that they can't be saved even if they wanted to.
An article for consideration:
Is Calvinism or Arminianism Biblical? (http://www.bible-truth.org/election.htm - broken link)
Fundy, I have to consider what you say in light of your new salvation.
I have read, studied, prayed, sought counsel, and really begged God to help me through some of these more difficult teachings/beliefs.
Calvinism is a lie. I know you don't believe me and you have shown time and again that you really aren't receptive to loving conversations about our faith and civilly discussing things you don't believe in, so I don't think actually trying to show you anything biblical would be very productive. You have your view on every issue and I've yet to see you consider what your brothers and sisters with different views have to say.
If free-will is a myth, why do you pass out tracts and share the gospel?
You realize that in your belief, if you're bring honest with those you are talking to, what you are doing has no bearing and part of your gospel message HAS TO INCLUDE a disclaimer that if the person you're talking to isn't 'worth it' to God that they can't be saved even if they wanted to.
An article for consideration:
Is Calvinism or Arminianism Biblical? (http://www.bible-truth.org/election.htm - broken link)
I said free will FROM THE WORLD STANDARDS is a myth.
You say I am not open minded. I beg to differ. I was not born a fundamentalist. in fact I had a disdain for fundamentalism and now look at me? Open minded is a person searching for the truth and not allowing anything to hinder that search. The bible is the truth and anybody who preaches differently from what the bible says is believing a lie so why in the world should I be receptive to that? The Bereans did the same thing-they studied the bible for the truth, if it wasn't in scripture they didn't believe. There has been a lot of nonsense preached in the church over the years like "back sliding" I assume your church like mine believes in this as well or "recommitting" your life with God.
I would love you to show me in scripture where one can "backslide" or "recommit"?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
