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actually its not off track. the question was specifically concerning natural vs unnatural. just because the track doesn't mirror exactly what you'd like to talk about doesn't mean its off track.
have their not been "natural" discusssions in this thread? I simply asked what defines natural and unnatural. I'd still like my question answered.
Natural is what God says is natural and unnatural is what God says is unnatural. I can respect this aspect of the discussion but it is getting some other aspects off track. How about providing scripture for natural and unnatural. I believe there is a verse were God said they traded the natural affection for the unnatural.
Natural is what God says is natural and unnatural is what God says is unnatural. I can respect this aspect of the discussion but it is getting some other aspects off track. How about providing scripture for natural and unnatural. I believe there is a verse were God said they traded the natural affection for the unnatural.
I'm not a biblical scholar..
which is why I was asking the question.
However, to your point "natural affection" doesn't answer the question.
Whats "natural" to me isn't "natural" to Denverian.
However, to your point "natural affection" doesn't answer the question.
Whats "natural" to me isn't "natural" to Denverian.
That is the problem, it is not your natural, my natural, or Denverians natural, but Gods natural that is important. Just look it up, I am sure there is plenty of verses on what is and isnt natural according to God. To help I will look as well if you are truly interested.
PS, I am not a Bible scholar either but I would like to be someday.
That is the problem, it is not your natural, my natural, or Denverians natural, but Gods natural that is important. Just look it up, I am sure there is plenty of verses on what is and isnt natural according to God. To help I will look as well if you are truly interested.
PS, I am not a Bible scholar either but I would like to be someday.
I can see that, I went thru it myself, but I present this to you and no I am not saying all these are the same but they do have a relation. Do you think someone just automatically says one day, I am going to be a pedophile with all its problems if I get caught. Or someone saying I am going to be an alcoholic with all its problems. Or a thief with all its hangups. They are temptations as well and some people either do not believe they can resist or in some cases believe they have no other choice. My father and grandfather died of alcoholism, my grandmother told me it was genetic and I had no choice but to be an alcoholic. I proved her wrong, I cant stand drinking. I would prefer to err on the side of God in this area considering all the condoning verses concerning the act.
Thank you for your straightforward candor. I realize your litmus test is the word of God. However, if these things are genetic, or diseases, or disorders, they likely won't be prayed away so-to-speak. Just as with autism, alcoholism or baldness, some other kind of intervention be it psychological, physiological and / or pharmaceutical is necessary to change the condition. I am unaware of any such treatment for homosexuality. Since I personally am not faced with such a dilemma, I really can't say anything definitive about it.
current polls show otherwise, but the polls 30-40 yrs ago stated that over 80% of homosexuals were of choice
let's suppose it is in the genetics..
then you must agree that it's a genetic disorder like autism
homosexual is not natural and it's an obvious disorder
it doesnt take religion for someone to realize that male/male or female/female does not go together
As stated by someone else, sociological polls are a reflection of the culture at the time and not necessarily "good science". Modern research on the subject is fairly definitive on homosexuality being genetic. As a health educator, I have yet to see a study conclude that it is a choice, unless that study was sponsored by a fundamentalist denomination/school. One of the first things you are taught when evaluating research is to look at who is doing the study and ask if they may have a bias that could impact the results.
Homosexuality is just as natural for the gay or lesbian as being heterosexual is for you and me.
Historic polls were taken and a high percentage of homosexuals believed it was a choice, and a lot of them admitted to being abused
since the movement in 10-20 yrs ago...homosexuals were taught that they were born like that, and that's what everyone is saying now.
there is no doubt that it's a choice as you can see with today's teenage girls who live a bisexual life during HS, but 'grow out of it' when they are older. It's the 'current fad'
btw the same science that says that homosexuals are born that way is the same science that believes that child molesters are also born that way and they have no choice BUT to molest children
Actually you are right. There are studies that conclude that child molesters are naturally predisposed to pedophilia. The HUGE difference is that in one case we are talking about two loving, consenting adults, and in the other we are talking about an adult SEXUALLY ABUSING A CHILD! Hence there is a strong arguement to be made that convicted child molesters should not be released from prison because the risk to reoffend is too great.
However, none of this has much bearing on the discussion about what the Bible has to say about homosexuality.
Of course I ask this question not to stir things up but because I believe there are two camps in terms of this issue. One believes it is a choice (temptations not withstanding). They tend to be the more devout crowd. And the other camp believes it is a genetic matter. Which is well beyond a temptation. I know a handfull of gays I count as friends so it is by no way an exhaustive sample. I personally don't know any gay person who says they looked at the gay lifestyle and said something to the effect of "Hey. AIDs. Discrimination. Hatred. That looks good. That's for me." No. All have said they knew they were different when puberty came and their attraction was to the same sex. That's one heck of a temptation, if that is indeed what it is.
Thanks for your input.
Alcoholism is supposedly an inherited predisposition. Do you suppose those people should give in to those predispositions and drink freely or that they should abstain from drinking?
How do you know "homosexuals were taught that they were born like that"?
Early 70s. Homosexuality was considered a mental disorder. After much activism by militant homosexuals, the APA put it up to a vote whether to keep homosexuality in the DSM. The vote was to remove it but not because of some new research justified the removal but because of pressure from activist groups. The presure continued to the point that now research that may lead to showing that homosexuality is anything but normal is essentially considered scientific heresy and is not tolerated within the APA.
It's like global warming err climate change, if you want research funding you better toe the party line.
But of course the topic is the Bible and homosexuality which makes it clear that homosexuality is a sin and that it is a choice.
I see.. so if its genetic.. and its different.. then its a "disorder".
Like bald men.
It's basic human physiology. Sexual organ with a not matching sexual organ or an organ used for exretions is abundantly not normal. But that's the lovely thing about creation and that is until you try and justify things for an agenda, it's obvious how things are supposed to work.
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