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You first brought in the statistical data, so PLEASE provide the stats to back up this prejudicial and stereotyped potrayal of women with AIDS. Then PLEASE relate it to the original thread topic of homosexuality as referenced in scripture.
You supposedly have the stats on minority women and AIDS so have at it. And relation to the thread? Post #333.
You did a fine job of quoting text that would appear to support your view but I’m more interested in God’s view. God’s view becomes a bit clearer when you read what you posted in a fuller context. Let’s back up just 4 verses, for starters, to verses 14-18.
2 Cor 5: 14-18
This says that when we come to Christ we no longer live for ourselves; our old selves died with Him. We become a new creation living for Christ Jesus, leaving our old sinful ways behind us. We are not to continue in sin we are compelled to strive to live in His righteousness.
Scripture dose not tell us to continue living in sin or to let our brothers and sisters in Christ continue in sin. Indeed it tells us quite the opposite.
BTW – you didn’t answer the question about whether you believe that living a homosexual lifestyle is sin or not. A simple yes or no will sufice. I understand that all sin is sin.
You would never know you are interested in Gods view when you cannot look past the act of homosexuality.
Sin is sin which ever way you look at read James 2 verse 10 . I am not defending the act of Homosexuality i am defending the homosexual .
God loves the homosexual and demonstrated it to him while he was yet a sin.
Of cause the word does not tell us to continue in sin (God forbid), but who are we to judge.
How on earth is the homosexual going to receive the good news that God loves him from you , when your eye is on sin and not on Gods love for him.
Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eye is unclouded, your whole body is full of light. But when your eye is evil, your body is full of darkness.
And having come forth, Jesus saw a great multitude and was moved with compassion and was with compassion on them, that they were as sheep not having a shepherd and he began to teach them.
It seems you guys see and are moved by something which is remote to the heart of God .
It seems that you are playing God with peoples lives.
I can give you more than one verse or situation just from Genesis, to show that God condoned men marrying more than one wife at the same time and also condoned married men having sex outside marriage with concubines and slave women. There are other examples throughout the Old Testament, but you only asked for one. Here's three. Abraham, Esau, Jacob
The Days of Our (Genesis) Lives…
Sarah told her husband Abraham to have sex with her Egyptian slave woman Hagar so that he could have a child with her, because she herself had been not been able to conceive. So, Abraham had sex with Hagar, she got pregnant, and gave birth to their son Ishmael. Abraham was 86 years old at the time.
God clearly condoned Abraham having sex with his wife’s slave woman Hagar as Abraham was one of God's favourites and the patriarch of the future Israelites. God also blessed Ishmael, the son of the Hagar and Abraham -conceived outside marriage.
Abraham also had sex with his concubines and had sons by them:
Then there is Isaac’s son Esau who married FOUR women. (Isaac was Abraham’s son)
Then we have the tangled marital and extra-marital sexual relationships of Jacob in Genesis 29 who married both Leah and Rachel and also had sex with Rachel’s slave woman Bilhah and Leah’s slave woman Zilpah (who he also married) and had children by them.
I’ll post the story -it’s like a soap opera. But it is clearly condoned by God.
As you can see just from these 3 examples, marriage between a man and more than one woman was condoned by God, as well as a man having extra-marital sex with slave women and concubines and having children by them. If you can any censure from God about the men's sexual behavior in these stories, please share...I couldn't find any.
Okay, shall we get back on topic about examining any references to homosexuality in the Bible?
God did not condone Abraham having a child with hagar. He blessed Ismael, because of Abraham, but he did not condone it. Remember when he went to take Issac to the Mountain to sacrifice. God said take your son, your only begotten son. Meaning that God did not recognize Ishmael as a Son of Abraham.
Esau is a terrible example. He took wives of the people that his parrents did not want him too. They were even troubled by it. Futher God said Jaccob have I loved, Esau have I hated. So, Esau was not condoned in his actions by God.
Even with Jaccob. I don't remember God saying I condone or accept or am happy with how you have taken many wives. It is not there.
God blessed Abraham, Issac and Jaccob not because of their relationships with woman, but because there relationship to him. In a place and time in the world where rampant idol worship took place and a pantheon of gods were created to substitute a relationship with the creator, these men believed on God the one true God. It was there faith that God was pleased with.
Just because the bible accurately describes the lives of people in the past, there inclusion in the bible does not reflect God's acceptance of them as righteous. There are many evil men reccorded in the bible. What the bible does is acurately reccord there lives. It is a true representation of what they did and said.
Abraham, Issac and Jaccob, were falible men. But as shown in scriptures it was there faith in God that gave them inclusion in the bible and blessings. God even called himself, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jaccob because of their faith.
I am not defending the act of Homosexuality i am defending the homosexual .
Absolutely, I agree whole heartedly. The discussion topic is about homosexuality and the Bible because some Christians believe that homosexuality is not a sin, therefore being an acceptable life style. Like you, I believe that Scripture clearly identifies the homosexual life style as sexual immorality, an abomination to God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Of cause the word does not tell us to continue in sin (God forbid), but who are we to judge.
How on earth is the homosexual going to receive the good news that God loves him from you , when your eye is on sin and not on Gods love for him.
The primary objective of this discussion is to get the various views on homosexuality and compare them in the light of Scripture so that we as Christians can better understand God’s desire. This is one of many ways that Christians can show God’s love; through study of His Word so that we can all know Him better, strengthening our relationship with Christ Jesus and then our neighbors.
What are your thoughts on Romans 1 considering the issue of sexual immorality?
I responded to that post by aquila questioning the word “para physin”. Click here to view. I can’t find that that was the word used. Can you provide a credible verifiable source, which shows the word “para physin”, was the word used in the original transcripts? I would also appreciate a Strong’s reference for the word “para physin” as I can’t find its’ use anywhere in Scripture.
My information about the transliterated Greek phrase φύσιν παρὰ "para physin" or "para phusin" comes from scholarly books like Professor John Boswell's well known work "Christianity Social Tolerance and Homosexuality" (Yale historian and language scholar), not so much from online websites.
However here are links to Netbible with Strongs numbers which transliterates the same term with the spelling of "para phusis". Perhaps that's why you had difficultiy finding it. NETBible: Romans 1:26
You can read what Boswell says about Pauls use of the phrase φύσιν παρὰ (para physin) in this preview on google books. The relevant pages start at pg 110. This link should take you to that page.
I'd also recommend buying this book as a reference resource to anyone who is really serious about studying this topic. But it's tough going for just casual readers because it is written for a scholarly audience.
You can also preview most of the Appendix on "The Lexicography of Saint Paul" starting at page 335 although the google book preview misses some pages.
PS: There's still some questions you raised in a post relating to Leviticus that I intend to address. I just haven't had a chance, but I'll to get to them when I can. cheers!
What are your thoughts on Romans 1 considering the issue of sexual immorality?
The same as God.
My focus is not on sin or the sinner it is a dwelling on and abiding in his amazing incessant love for me and the rest of mankind.
Within the veil be this beloved your portion
within the secret of thy Lord to dwell
beholding him until thy face his glory
Thy life his love thy lips his praise shall tell
Within the veil and only as thou gazest
upon the matchless beauty of his face
can thou become a living revelation
of his great heart of love his untold grace
God did not condone Abraham having a child with hagar. He blessed Ismael, because of Abraham, but he did not condone it. Remember when he went to take Issac to the Mountain to sacrifice. God said take your son, your only begotten son. Meaning that God did not recognize Ishmael as a Son of Abraham.
Esau is a terrible example. He took wives of the people that his parrents did not want him too. They were even troubled by it. Futher God said Jaccob have I loved, Esau have I hated. So, Esau was not condoned in his actions by God.
Even with Jaccob. I don't remember God saying I condone or accept or am happy with how you have taken many wives. It is not there.
God blessed Abraham, Issac and Jaccob not because of their relationships with woman, but because there relationship to him. In a place and time in the world where rampant idol worship took place and a pantheon of gods were created to substitute a relationship with the creator, these men believed on God the one true God. It was there faith that God was pleased with.
Just because the bible accurately describes the lives of people in the past, there inclusion in the bible does not reflect God's acceptance of them as righteous. There are many evil men reccorded in the bible. What the bible does is acurately reccord there lives. It is a true representation of what they did and said.
Abraham, Issac and Jaccob, were falible men. But as shown in scriptures it was there faith in God that gave them inclusion in the bible and blessings. God even called himself, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jaccob because of their faith.
Already answered this here: //www.city-data.com/forum/8915740-post312.html
However, you are right about Esau not being a good example because I don;t think there is anywhere where it is written in Genesis about God speaking to him directly, unlike Abraham and Jacob. So I guess the writers of those stories in the OT must have got it wrong, or lied about God talking directly to them?
Hmmmm....
it seems that everyone is arguing about 1 word but if you read the WHOLE THING you will see that it's in context
men leaving women to go with other men
this isn't even a long shot....it's just stupidity for anyone to think that it means something else.
It's a sin!
homosexuality is a sin in the Christian religion, and not only will the bible back that up..so will history!
History teaches that it was not accepted, and only a 'few' out of MILLIONS believe it's not a sin
May I suggest you nail it to the front door of your church
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